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2020.2.5 Orion Maps automatic topology connection bugs

MEHayes

I am noticing a number of bugs / errors with Orion Maps and the automatic topology creation. I have several devices that do not communicate with each other being automatically mapped as if they are connected. The whole point of the map, is to view the topology for all 3 sites on 1 map, so I will not be turning off the "topology connections". See below diagram for reference.

Each router (Cisco 4451-X) has a switch module (Cisco SM-X-ES3D-48-P) embedded within, reachable by a backplane interface. Interface Ethernet-Internal1/0/0 interface on the router, and GigabitEthernet0/52 on the switch module. Router A connects to Switch module A, Router B to B, and C to C. These are the only connections that should be present, as these routers and switches are all in geographically separated regions, AND they have no way to communicate to each other.

Issue 1:

Between Router A and Switch Module A, it automatically mapped 2 different connections, with only 1 of them being correct. It mapped:

Ethernet-Internal1/0/0 to GigabitEthernet0/52 (correct)

BDI1 to GigabitEthernet0/52 (incorrect).

The BDI is a virtual interface, and it thinks it connects to a physical interface (Gig0/52). BD1 would connect to VLAN 1 on the switch (although this is shutdown). The other odd thing is that the other BDI's aren't mapped the same incorrect way. I have a dozen or so other BDI's that it should pick up for the same consistant (but incorrect) way but they don't.

This same exact issue, is present on Router C to Switch Module C with the same corresponding interfaces.

The same issue between Router C and Switch Module B is present, except that there should not be a connection between them.

Router B to Switch Module C only has the E-I1/0/0 to G0/52 automatic connection (instead of the BDI one as well), but that too, doesn't exist.

Issue 2:

Switch Module A's connection to Switch Module C doesn't exist. It sees this connection as follows:

SM-A GigabitEthernet0/52 to SM-C VLAN 20

Somehow, it's mapping a physical interface at 1 geographical location, to a VLAN on a different switch blade (which again, doesn't exist) at another location.

Issue 3:

Router B to Switch Module B should have the E-I1/0/0 to G0/52 connection mapped, but it doesn't find it automatically.

Issue 4:

Not pictured, but similar to the first issue. I have another router connected to a switch with 2 physical connections over a port-channel. The connection seen is as follows:
Router port-channel 11.22 to Switch port-channel 11. Somehow it mapped a subinterface (11.22) to a port-channel instead of mapping it to VLAN 11.

All of these routers and switches are configured exactly the same (with only the IPs' 3 octet changing per location) with the same interfaces and names connecting to each of their respective switch modules, but each side has something different automatically created. All of the interfaces on all devices that are checked to be monitored on each node are the same. It is odd that even the incorrect connections don't seem to be consistent throughout.

I hope this helps to correct the issue. As a solution for me personally, I want the ability to delete (or turn off) the automatically generated links so that I can do them manually. I would stick with Atlas Maps, however the upgrade to 2020.2.5 killed one of my maps (it no longer shows status colors on objects). I'm assuming that is part of the "deprecation" of network atlas that is mentioned in the patch notes. This doesn't fix the underlying issue, but it is a work around that fixes my problem.

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Comments

jblankjblank

Hello @MEHayes -

2 items I would recommend checking if you believe connections are being generated which you don't expect too. First, access one of the devices in question and locate the NPM Network Topology Widget. This is usually available under the Network sub-tab by default.

Orion Maps will automatically generate and visualize connections based on the topology discovered by NPM. The connections populated on a map by default will be any connections in which we understand or see the interfaces on both sides. Using the example above, the 3rd and 4th connections listed are the only ones that would be visible when both entities are added to the canvas. If you are seeing connections you do not expect, I would open a case with support to investigate issues with topology calculation.

Second, if you see a Custom topology connection that you believe is incorrect, that would mean that a user created a map and defined this topology connection while building that map. They then chose to make this visible across all of Orion.

I have noted the Feature Request to be able to view Manual Topology only and turn off the automatic connections. This could be something you see in the not so distant future but stay tuned.

As for the Atlas scenario, you can continue to use this tool if you wish. The issue you described was a bug and I believe has been addressed in the latest release if not an upcoming one. Additionally, just to be clarify, we would not begin to break functionality based on a deprecation notice. If you need to use Atlas, by all means continue to do so. There are no immediate plans to remove Atlas functionality anytime soon. This was a notification to make customers aware that new features in Atlas are unlikely, and encourage the use of Orion Maps. If there is functionality you require to be successful with Orion Maps, please share that feedback and be sure to create feature requests where necessary. Hopefully this helps!

MEHayes

I looked at the NPM Network Topology widget that you mentioned and found even more connections that shouldn't be there, however, I hadn't added those particular nodes to the map, so I didn't see them before. Does the topology mapper only identify "directly connected" interfaces, or interfaces that can reach each other from more than 1 hop (or an uncommon subnet)? Either way, several of these mappings are incorrect, as I have a heavily segregated network using VRFs and a lot of the mapped connections can not physically communicate. I'm guessing it supposed to be directly connected, otherwise there would be a lot more connections shown.

There aren't any custom topologies, because I am the only one working on our Solarwinds deployment, and I haven't added any.

The bug with Network Atlas happened after the 2020.2.5 upgrade. I previously used the built in "Rectangle Shape" under appearance to represent tunnel interfaces, so I could see if they are up or down. On 2020.2.4 and under, the shapes would show status colors, but after the 2020.2.5 upgrade all of the objects in the "shape" category only show black (seen below). The black boxes all represented different tunnels to customers, where the gray boxes identified the customers. This is the bug you're referring to right?

Since then, I have re-created this map using Orion Maps with a less than ideal look to it, but it is functional. Also, the Orion Maps seem to take a long time to load compared to Atlas Maps. I run a NOC mode view that rotates between 4 screens. I can physically see the objects loading in during the initial 2 times loading any page that has an Orion Map, and I always get the notification in the upper right hand corner "Server Error, We are having difficulty communicating with the Orion Server." This only happens with Orion Maps. Eventually it works itself out, but it does seem like the Orion Maps put a strain on the server for some reason. I have 12 Cores and 64 GB RAM assigned to the server (and SQL Server), It is on the same subnet as the SQL Server, so 1 ms latency, and my Server only has 4200 total elements being polled so it shouldn't be slow.

jblankjblank

For the Topology scenario, I would state that the engine is calculating that info based on information retrieved from protocols like CDP or LLDP as well as ARP and CAM tables. A general list of OIDS is available here: https://support.solarwinds.com/SuccessCenter/s/article/What-object-IDs-OIDs-does-the-Orion-Platform-poll-for-network-topology-information?language=en_US

I might recommend generating a support case and providing SNMP walks of a couple example devices and descriptions much like above of the connections you expect, or don't expect to be visible via the NPM Topology Widget. All of this is what feeds the automated connections shown in the Orion Map.

For the Network Atlas scenario, the bug you described was fixed in the Orion Platform 2020.2.5 Hotfix 1 which was recently released - https://support.solarwinds.com/SuccessCenter/s/article/Orion-Platform-2020-2-5-Hotfix-1?language=en_US

For the last part - as you stated you created the Atlas map in Orion Maps > what makes it less than ideal as far as the look? I would be curious to understand what would help it to become ideal.

The slow to load would certainly be something to investigate as well. This may be as simple enough as providing a general description like you did, include the error message that you are seeing along with the detail (should be a clickable link). I will tell you that depending on what is a part of those maps, whether there are large images, significant number of entities, etc..., could impact the load times, and when going into NOC mode takes all 4 of those tabs, and essentially generates them as a single page. Still this is something that we could analyze and determine further improvements and tweaks that would be beneficial for you and others.

MEHayes

How do I go about opening a support case (I thought that's what I was doing here in the forum)?

We have CDP and LLDP turned off globally and at the interface level. ARP is obviously there, although we have certain aspects of ARP turned off at the interface level. It could be possible that this is interfering with proper calculations.

I see the Hotfix 1 now and am downloading and applying it now. Thank you for that, I didn't notice it, even when I went to download 2020.2.5 for another installation 3 days ago.

My NOC modes are fairly simple. I have 1 Atlas map with my WAN topology simplified for a quick glance. In the second column I have All Active alerts for the first slide. 2nd, 3rd, and 4th slides are detailed maps per location, done exactly the same way. The first map is a complete network topology of the site along with nodes to see server status done in atlas maps. Under that, I have active alerts limited to just that sites' devices. The second column has the tunnel map done in Orion Maps that contains objects for 217 tunnels across 2 network devices. I had to make everything small enough that it could all fit on one 1920x1080 screen @ 100% zoom, or 4K resolution at 200% zoom, that's why all the tunnels had to be close together.

I like the ability to snap to grid that Orion maps has (although I wish you could adjust the grid interval to allow for larger or smaller snapping). I had spent way too much time moving objects in Atlas Maps to be "pixel perfect". Re-sizing objects in Orion Maps is a different pain, because I pretty much had to guess and check when changing the pixel size on the right hand side, because you can't drag and expand an object's size with the mouse. I liked being able to add an object and then assign the interface / node later in Atlas Maps, so I could focus on the design of the page until I figured out how I wanted it to look. Instead I had to actually drag the objects to the page from the entity library. Eventually I just continued to drag the same interface on as a place holder while I figured out my design. It takes some time to search and find the correct interface using the search feature unless I know the exact interface name off the top of my head (most of the time I was searching for descriptions to find the correct interface). I would like the ability to do a compound search, for instance where I could specify Node name, and then search for descriptions within that parameter. I have some devices with hundreds of physical and logical interfaces, so this would have helped accomplish it quicker.

Sanitized the maps so I could post them.

Overview Map (Atlas)

Site Map (Atlas)

Tunnels (Orion)

saw10

I had the same "black box issue" but this was corrected with the HotFix that was released 13th of May 2021.

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