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I will build a new SQL.

Good Morning,

We have a Solarwinds SQL server but the problem is it is not just a Solarwinds SQL server.

It has 12 other databases running on it.

Its old.

It is 2008R2 with SQL 2008 R2 Standard.

So...Solarwinds is running really slowly because another database appears to be using all the resources on the current SQL server.

I decided I would try and spec a new SQL server for Solarwinds and i've slipped down the rabbit hole into SQL server licensing.

SQL Server CALs licenses required from Orion - SolarWinds Worldwide, LLC. Help and Support

MS SQL Server licensing recommendations for SolarWinds products - SolarWinds Worldwide, LLC. Help and Support

Any ideas, how I proceed, SQL cluster? or just a standalone SQL server?

I am trying to think of ideas about how to keep the existing database running despite it being stuck amongst other 200GB SQL databases on its existing home. I wish this was a 2016/17 SQL server... Maybe if I stare at it long enough it will upgrade and transform into something usable.

Thanks

Adam @acmtix

Find more posts tagged with

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Accepted answers

All comments

Deltona

Hello adam,

How many polling engines are connected to the SQL server and what is the total elements count that you are monitoring?

Which Orion products are in use?

FormerMember

Hi Deltona

We just have one polling engine. Total element count is :

ELEMENTS	4794
NETWORK NODE ELEMENTS	1125
VOLUME ELEMENTS	1576
INTERFACE ELEMENTS	2093

SolarWindsOrion Platform 2017.1,

NPM 12.1,

CloudMonitoring 1.0.0,

SAM 6.4.0, ---- 6.5 requires 2012.

DPAIM 11.0.0,

VIM 7.1.0,

NetPath 1.1.0,

QoE 2.3,

UDT 3.2.4,

IPAM 4.3.2,

NCM 7.5.1,

NTA 3.11.0

Deltona

Based on the number of connections that will be made to the SQL server, I would recommend the following:

OS: Windows Server 2012R2/2016

SQL: SQL Server 2012/2014/2016 Standard

CPU: 4-8 Cores @ 3GHz, 8 Cores recommended

MEM: 16-32GB, 32GB recommended

Disk1 (OS): 40GB free space

Disk2 (DATA): the size of the Orion database x 1.5

Disk3 (LOG): 30GB free space

Disk4 (TEMP): 30GB free space

NIC: 1-10G, 4G recommended minimum

Licensing: If CAL based then it should reflect the number of users. If CPU based then either 4 or 8, depending on how many CPUs you will allocate.

Notes: The storage should preferably be SSD based for best performance, or else you should follow the recommendations documented in the NPM vXX.X system requirements under hard drive space.

FormerMember

Thanks

Only 32GB RAM?

I have also been looking at Device cals for SQL instead of processor or user cal licensing. It looks like a good option. I'm not sure if I still need to buy user cals with device cals?

They won't pay for SSD storage here

rschroeder

Definitely install on SQL 2016. The new version of NTA will not be supported on anything earlier.

smoked_angus

We are currently on WIN 2008/SQL 21012, and moving to WIN 2016/SQL 2016 next month. We, over time have had to move to 128 GB RAM due to serious I/O on our system with 8 APEs and over 100,000 elements. After tweaking, we did get MEM down to an avg. of about 85 GB.

You should strive for a non-shared DB. Looks like you are a smaller shop, so my data is over the top.

You definitely want to try to upgrade to SQL 2016 if at all possible.

I do have the luxury of flash storage, so that is a plus.

* OS(WIN 2008) are already mapped to be deprecated for solarwinds support at EOY 2018, so that is a bullet point you can put in front of management too.

FormerMember

Will certainly mention that to management when proposing the upgrade path. You are right this shop is fairly small, mainly because a lot of the stuff they have isn't monitored. We are changing that slowly and as we do their requirements will grow along with the SQL database.

dgsmith80

Is that right? I'm not on any beta tests but I was under the impression it would be an option to continue with FastBit storage or migrate to SQL2016? Surely they can't just pull support for the flow storage and thus keep everyone on the current version? Purchasing an additional SQL Licence might not cut it with a lot of customers. I might have to pay more attention to the upcoming NTA release

FormerMember

Hey everyone,

I've done some more research with my friend from Microsoft regarding SQL licensing for SQL Standard edition specifically.

There are 4 types of licenses I have seen for sale on SQL licensing websites.

SQL CPU Core

SQL Server

SQL Device

SQL User

1. Processor Licensing Model

A license is required for each physical or virtual processor accessed by an operating system environment running SQL Server.
This license does not require any device or user client access licenses (CALs).
Under this structure, a customer acquires a separate Processor license for each processor that is located in the server running the SQL Server software.
If you have made a processor inaccessible to all operating system copies on which the SQL Server software is set up to run, you do not need a software license for that processor.
This licensing model is most appropriate for applications that are accessible through the Internet and for internal applications with a high client-to-server ratio.

So we have one Orion SQL server with loads of cores and this will cost a lot.

2. Server Plus Device CALs Licensing Model

Server plus device client access license (CAL) licensing requires a separate Server license (for either SQL Server 2005 Standard Edition or Enterprise Edition) for each server on which the software is installed, plus a CAL for each client device.
A SQL Server CAL is required for a device (for example, a personal computer, workstation, terminal, personal digital assistant, or mobile phone) to access or use the services or functionality of either edition of SQL Server.

So we have one SQL server and one Solarwinds poller server (device) so we need one SQL Server Standard license and one SQL device license. (BEST OPTION)

3. Server Plus User CALs Licensing Model

Server plus user client access license (CAL) licensing requires a separate Server license for each server on which the software is installed, plus a user CAL for each user accessing the server.
A SQL Server CAL is required for a user to access or use the services or functionality of either edition of SQL Server.

So we have one SQL Server and loads of users. This model is not good for us as we will have to pay per user instead of per device.

https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/sql-server/sql-server-2017-pricing

Note the difference between Per Core and Server + CAL (CAL referring to either SQL User or SQL device accessing SQL Server or SQL CPU Core).

I've spoken to some licensing vendors who specify that you must have User CAL's as well as Device CAL's as well as CPU core licenses. It makes me laugh how misunderstood SQL licensing is, even the vendors have trouble.

If you have a Server CAL with Device CAL's you don't need user CAL's and you can utilise all of your 24 CPU Cores for Standard edition without buying those expensive CPU Core licenses.

You are licensing the server not the cores.

For Solarwinds using a Server+Device CAL is great because its cheap and all Solarwinds users go through this device so essentially its only one device (the main poller server) accessing the SQL database.

You can always buy more Device CAL's if you decide to separate out your Solarwinds functionality.

Also check out this advice reinforcing the Device CAL licensing route from Solarwinds : MS SQL Server licensing recommendations for SolarWinds products - SolarWinds Worldwide, LLC. Help and Support

dgsmith80

Thanks acmtix

FormerMember

Okay, I've been talking to my friend at Microsoft the one that gave me the information above previously about Multiplexing. He pointed me here :

The Multiplexing Trap

You already know that most Microsoft server products require Client Access Licenses (CALs), which comprise a majority of total licensing costs for those products. In general, all employees or on-site contractors accessing instances of a server product that require user CALs need CALs for themselves or for the devices they use to access the server product.

What you may not realize is that a CAL is also required for users or devices that indirectly access server product instances through an intermediary, a scenario Microsoft refers to as multiplexing. This means that integrating two systems can obligate an organization to buy many more CALs than they might expect.

For example, an organization might synchronize cost and timesheet data between its enterprise resource planning (ERP) system and Microsoft’s Project Server, a project management server application. In that case, the organization needs Project Server CALs for all employees that use the ERP system, even if they never use Project Server directly.

So the question i'd like to ask Solarwinds is, do we have to go down the per core route after all because the solarwinds web server acts as a multiplex pooling hardware device?

Even Microsoft auditors and employees seem to be confused about this...

grantallenby

I thought Solarwinds removed the CPU Speed recommendation and now only base it off of cores? I don't know many high core processors at or over 3ghz

silverbacksays

That's a really scary diagram. I'm currently quoting a client for a complete platform refresh, and one of the elements is moving to SQL Server 2016/17.

Trying to work out the licensing required for this is a nightmare before you even consider Multiplexing. If the Project Server example is correct, then effectively device which is sending NetFlow data to Orion would need a device CAL, since they indirectly communicate with the new SQL-based NFDB. Almost makes me want to quote for the per-core licensing, just to be on the safe side, since apparently if you're on per-core, it's all you can eat with regards to access to that SQL Instance and it's databases.

...or is it?

Why does Microsoft insist in shooting themselves in the foot? When the licensing vendors haven't got a clue, it's clearly not a fit for purpose system

FormerMember

If you go to Solarwinds and ask for help they won't comment. silverbacksays by the above logic we could determine that every single monitored device is communicating with SQL and in that case requires a device CAL too. Let us assume that Microsoft wouldn't do that... they wouldn't... or would they?