20 Replies Latest reply on Jun 19, 2014 9:53 AM by jeffnorton

    Toolset V11 Web integration with Orion

    jeffnorton

      Ok so I am more than a little bit confused by the web only product.  When I look in the customer portal that are three downloads, the main installer, a poller installer, and a additional web server installer.  There's no real explanation on these.  Now on to the real confusion.  I installed integrated with my Orion NPM on the main poller.  It works for only one user, which right now is the admin user.  My impression was that it would work for any user.  However, when I try an enable an account in addition to the admin account it argues about another license and license manager.  SO color me very confused.

        • Re: Toolset V11 Web integration with Orion
          robdover

          If I understand your question and the product correctly, it is licensed in two ways; per server and per user.

          Per server, anyone who has access to the server can use the tools on the server.

          Per user (seats), you must have a license for each individual user who wants to use the tools via the Orion Web.

          I believe you only need the poller and web server installers if you are installing as a standalone product (not integrated with Orion).

          -Rob-

            • Re: Toolset V11 Web integration with Orion
              jainsworth

              Robdover, I don't think jeffnorton is talking about the tools being installed on the server, but the toolset integration with the Orion server.  I too am not happy with this first try.  Good intentions, but in order to allow any user to use the tool integrations, which is only 5 tools at this time, there must be enough toolset licenses for each user.  Not concurrent user, each license is assigned.  So one license is assigned to a specific user and no other person can use it.  I will likely be contacting Solarwinds to provide uninstall instructions.

                • Re: Toolset V11 Web integration with Orion
                  robdover

                  If jeffnorton only had a single license with ET V10, after upgrading, he will only have 1 server and 1 user license when V11 is integrated with Orion. That 1 seat will need to be assigned to 1 user.

                  I agree though that SW should make it concurrent users up to the max number of licensed seats. We have a support team in excess of 20 individuals. I can pretty much guarantee we won't be buying 20 licenses!

              • Re: Toolset V11 Web integration with Orion
                peter.ksenzsigh

                Jeff - you can activate more license keys (seats) for web toolset on your orion server and therefore allow respective number of users to use the Toolset on the Web. You will only have to login as admin and assign these seats to existing Orion users. E.g. You have 10 ETS licenses = 20 keys. 10 desktop keys can be used on 10 desktop machines and 10 web keys can be all activated on a single orion server, allowing 10 users to use the web toolset.

                Does this makes sense please?

                Peter

                  • Re: Toolset V11 Web integration with Orion
                    robertcbrowning

                    Sorry, but I'm still not clear on this yet.

                    If I have a single polling engine & I put three TS licences on it - can three named users use the product?

                    Can any three concurrent users from a group login of "SupportUsers" use the product

                    If I have multiple engines and an one additonal web server, do I install the keys to the AWS or to the primary engine?

                    & if I run multiple AWS, where do I install the keys?

                    Thanks

                     

                    *************

                     

                    Just after I submitted this I received a mail from SW announcing the official release & with a note that explains it all

                    So you have to pick your users, install a piece on their workstation AND also install/configure for them in Orion.

                     

                    QUOTE

                    Important License Instructions
                    SolarWinds Engineer's Toolset version 11 now contains two installers, one for the web and one for the desktop/workstation. You must install and activate both versions in order to have full functionality of Engineer's Toolset on the web.

                    END QUOTE

                      • Re: Toolset V11 Web integration with Orion
                        peter.ksenzsigh

                        Robert - if you activate 3 keys on a single poller, you can assign these 3 seats to your 3 existing Orion users.

                        Concurrent sessions from the same username are not possible due to Cookies limitation, however, if you try to use web toolset from a different browser in the same time, you are notified about this fact and provided ability to reset the existing session.

                         

                        If you have multiple polling engines and one additional web server, you need to install additional poller/web bits on these machines. Keys needs to be activated on your primary web only.

                        Peter

                      • Re: Toolset V11 Web integration with Orion
                        jeffnorton

                        I understand what you are saying.  I don't like it but I understand it.  So basically the option of using it as a web based product still is restricted to a licensed per user (seat) per session.  There's not much incentive to using it in this fashion integrated with Orion as Orion doesn't have the license per user (seat) requirement.  I submit your team needs to go back to the drawing board and come up with a better way to license this thing for integration with Orion.  I have no problem with the per user licensing for stand alone full featured installs, but I'm quite sure that no one here is going to waste multiple expensive licenses trying to integrate this product with Orion.  As one of the responders above the web piece of it only has 5 tools, most of which are nothing more than more granular pieces of what already exists in Orion.  My opinion is you've struck out on this one.

                      • Re: Toolset V11 Web integration with Orion
                        jmiddleton

                        Sounds like a great new feature, but I'm not sure I can justify the downtime to install another module across all our pollers and additional for a product that requires such expensive licensing. To be really useful we'll need to deploy to all our users of Orion and at that level ETS that would cost more than the licensing costs for the rest of the platform and would result in many (i.e. 10's) unusable desktop licenses.

                         

                        Could you offer packs of web only user licenses? Or just an unlimited users web only product? I've been told that currently these are not options, but this product is useless to us with a change to how licenses are structured.

                        • Re: Toolset V11 Web integration with Orion
                          planglois

                          I agree with jmiddleton & jeffnorton. The licensing is nonsense for tools that should already be incorporated in a solution like the Orion Core...

                            • Re: Toolset V11 Web integration with Orion
                              jmiddleton

                              I'm happy for it to be an additional module with some licensing, but getting 20 users on the web interface with 5 tools should not cost more (at list price) than one of our unlimited NPM licenses which as no user restrictions.

                               

                              We have multiple support teams, split across a number of sites along with 2 Orion platforms and getting this into Orion is a nice to have and I will not even consider (or be allowed) to spending £20k+ for each of our Orion platforms (and also license each user twice!) for 5 tools and only access for 20 staff.

                               

                              SolarWinds please reconsider the licensing options for ETS Web, as also offering a module based licensing by user count so I can add to multiple platforms without doubling up on ETS desktop is a must for us to even consider adding this to our list of products.

                                • Re: Toolset V11 Web integration with Orion
                                  peter.ksenzsigh

                                  Guys,

                                  Solarwinds strategy is to provide easy to use solutions to all customers and the best way how to achive this, is to have different products (even if slightly overlapping) serving different use cases you can have. And while majority of Orion based products are meant for monitoring, Toolset is bit different and aims also for real-time visibility and troubleshooting functions needed mostly on demand, rather than proactivally running 24/7 as NPM/SAM... As you can also imagine, real time polling is rather a demanding task and it wouldn't be technically possible to apply this level of polling granurality to all monitored devices under Orion umbrella.

                                   

                                  In order to not create confusion by having 2 different license models for a single product, we decided to stay with the seat based model which was for years applied on Desktop toolset. Anyway, we never say never at Solarwinds and depending on further feedback we may want to re-open the licensing topic internally.

                                  Of course, your feedback is highly appreciated, just please be patient as v11 is out only for few days and we need to gather and analyze more of your feedback properly.

                                  Regards

                                  Peter

                                    • Re: Toolset V11 Web integration with Orion
                                      jmiddleton

                                      Hi peter.ksenzsigh,

                                       

                                      I understand the difference in requirements between 24x7 monitoring and real time performance monitoring, but the way I see it is that these tools put extra resources in the hands of 1st & 2nd line support staff where as it's 3rd line+ that's more likely to have a personally assigned ETS desktop. Also if a user has a toolset on a laptop without being able to purchase separate web licenses can't they only use the web based tools with a single Orion platform (e.g. if you have 2+ platforms like us).

                                       

                                      Great news your look into the feedback, last I heard it was set in stone.

                                       

                                      Jon.

                                        • Re: Toolset V11 Web integration with Orion
                                          jonchill

                                          I agree, while its the 3rd line engineers who have Engineers on the desktop allowing our 2nd line team access to a similar range of tools from the web interface all be it only 5 at the moment would improve things imensely for them and would allow them to do this type of support without asking the 3rd line team.

                                           

                                          I got a quote from our resller to extend the Web licensing to include our 2nd line team and was told that I would have to purchase a full Engineers license which includes the web component and that would cost in the region of £18k which is ridiculous as they're never going to have the desktop version installed and that sort of money for only 5 tools is daylight robbery.

                                           

                                          Now that I understand the licensing better, I don't have a problem with Solarwinds charging for a web license but why a full engineers license and why per seat rather than concurrency which would be our preferred method of licensing, at most only 2 or 3 users would be using it at any one time, is this Solarwinds looking at profits as opposed to usability?

                                            • Re: Toolset V11 Web integration with Orion
                                              jmiddleton

                                              Your findings match what I've been told with licensing, to get 25 users using it I had to get 25 desktop licenses (i.e. over £20k list). I would happy to suggest buying per seat licenses for web to my boss if the cost was about 1/10th (ideally less) of the ETS desktop. However together it does not fly and I've already passed that on via other channels.

                                               

                                              I'll look forward to SolarWinds reporting back when they have mulled over all the feedback.

                                    • Re: Toolset V11 Web integration with Orion
                                      jonchill

                                      I am also dissapointed in Solarwinds at making the Web component licenseable, with our single server license we got 2 individual seat user licences which makes the whole web componenets pointless as we have more than 2 users who would want access to these tools. What makes it worse is that by default the Toolset tab is enabled on every users account so I've had to go through all our users and remove the toolset tab, why when there's a restriction on licensing is the Toolset tab enabled by default across all users?

                                       

                                      Given that I presume that the big push with future development for the toolset is integration with Orion and not the desktop version then what are we paying for with the Toolset license on top of the web license?

                                      • Re: Toolset V11 Web integration with Orion
                                        jeffnorton

                                        I'm afraid Solarwinds badly misjudged the user population on this one.  As of yesterday afternoon I have parked the web license I had installed for Toolset web integrated with Orion and uninstalled the product.  As others have said paying for a full license per user to get web access to only 5 tools is a non-starter and even more so on the integration with Orion.  Unless there is a major change to this we won't be installing this upgrade any time soon and we make look else where for similar tools the Engineers tool set provides.