55 Replies Latest reply on Oct 11, 2011 4:12 PM by smartd

    Does anyone use NPM for Juniper Devices...

    kim.lovell

      We have SRX210/3400s Firewalls, EX4200/4500/8200 switches as well as the SSG350/550 Firewalls. I am trying to pull data such as the CPU/Memory/Temperature. I saw the UnDPs that are out there but they give cryptic charts/tables. The interfaces are numbered weird like "1.0" and the output is hard to interpret. Has anyone been able to get useful information from the UnDP pollers from any of these devices?? I am not "that" great with the UnDP so it is probably "user error" and I just need a little push in the right direction.

      Thanks,

      Kim

        • Re: Does anyone use NPM for Juniper Devices...

          Hi Kim--

          I found this post for monitoring temperature on the EX switch:

          Junos (EX) Temp Poller and Alert

          Also, for further education on UnDPs, check out that chapter in the Orion NPM Administrator Guide. See pacetti's post in this thread:

          Re: How to import the MIBs to Orion Universal Device Poller?

          The chapter is really informative.

          HTH,

          M

          • Re: Does anyone use NPM for Juniper Devices...
            mjm

            I found out today that Juniper uses custom MIBS and Solarwinds/Orion does not support anything that is not outside of the standard. They can add custom MIBS, but I am told by their support that it would be very hard to get Solarwinds to do that.

            My company has put in a completely new WAN/LAN using Juniper and now that we're ready to roll out the network, we find that Solarwinds does not support the Juniper MIBS.

            Juniper is not a small company and I don't see how Solarwinds will grow it's market share without accomodating all vendors. Except for the few legacy Cisco devices still in operation, we have very litle reason to use Solarwinds now.

              • Re: Does anyone use NPM for Juniper Devices...
                byrona


                I found out today that Juniper uses custom MIBS and Solarwinds/Orion does not support anything that is not outside of the standard. They can add custom MIBS, but I am told by their support that it would be very hard to get Solarwinds to do that.

                My company has put in a completely new WAN/LAN using Juniper and now that we're ready to roll out the network, we find that Solarwinds does not support the Juniper MIBS.

                Juniper is not a small company and I don't see how Solarwinds will grow it's market share without accomodating all vendors. Except for the few legacy Cisco devices still in operation, we have very litle reason to use Solarwinds now.

                 



                I think the information you have regarding SolarWinds may be incorrect, or at least partially incorrect.

                If it can be monitored with SNMP, then you can monitor it with SolarWinds.  No, SolarWinds doesn't necessarily give you CPU, Memory, etc for every node automatically; however, it does provide you the framework to get this information and display it.  Once you have configured SolarWinds to collect the critical information for any device, then it's just a matter of applying those pollers to those devices going forward.

                You won't find any NMS that supports every device out of the box, the important thing is having the framework and flexibility to get that information and display it which SolarWinds does.

                IMO any NMS worth having will require customization and SolarWinds does this.

                  • Re: Does anyone use NPM for Juniper Devices...
                    Chrystal Taylor

                    You should be able to use the Universal Device Poller resource to get the information that you are looking for.  As you create and assign your pollers, you have the ability for them to be shown on the web interface essentially giving you the same data that comes out of the box for other nodes.  As byrona mentioned, all devices do not use the standard MIBs that Orion uses out of the box to poll for this data, but the availabilty to poll it is there.  Hope this helps.

                      • Re: Does anyone use NPM for Juniper Devices...
                        mjm

                        I appreciate the information provided. Unfortunately, any MIB not in the natural polling engine, will get read by the universal device poller, but that's it. Data is read and displayed. One can not get manipulated data like max/average CPU usage for the day, max/average memory usage for the day, peak/average utilization for the day, etc. Top management wants the 'big picture' reports. These can not be provided through the universal device poller. I nee3d about ten MIBS put into the natural polling engine, but as I mentioned earlier, I was told by the Solarwinds support engineer that it's not going to happen.

                          • Re: Does anyone use NPM for Juniper Devices...
                            byrona


                            I appreciate the information provided. Unfortunately, any MIB not in the natural polling engine, will get read by the universal device poller, but that's it. Data is read and displayed. One can not get manipulated data like max/average CPU usage for the day, max/average memory usage for the day, peak/average utilization for the day, etc. Top management wants the 'big picture' reports. These can not be provided through the universal device poller. I nee3d about ten MIBS put into the natural polling engine, but as I mentioned earlier, I was told by the Solarwinds support engineer that it's not going to happen.

                             



                            Mjm

                            Just as a point of note, the Min, Max and Average is stored for each data-point collected by the Universal Device Poller and can be reported on as such.  How is it that you are trying to report this data that isn't working?

                              • Re: Does anyone use NPM for Juniper Devices...
                                jspanitz

                                Hmm, this is great info at just the right time.  We just had Juniper on site to discuss what they could do for us.  Knowing we would need to do tons of customization and / or replace NPM is good to know.  From the little bits and pieces I saw about Juniper here on thwack, I always thought they were fully supported.

                                FWIW, we are looking at the SRX, EX and SA (recently to be replaced by the MWG) series.

                                • Re: Does anyone use NPM for Juniper Devices...
                                  mjm

                                  That's good news. I was stating my information from the Solarwinds engineer working on ticket 239813, who stated in a email, quote "You cannot get average and max CPU from the custom poller. The custom poller does not do calculations like NPM does for it's native polling. You would have to create some type of transform to calculate the data and I do not know how accurate that would be. The reports are just a complex SQL query that gathers data from the database to display in one readable view".

                                  The engineer did say that Solarwinds could add Juniper specific MIBs into the natural polling engine, so I am hopeful that they will add common Juniper MIBS in future releases like CPU, memory, temp, utilization, etc.

                                  I apologize if I misstated information. Could you provide a link that I could use and go back to Solarwinds to request assistance again?  Thank-you.  MJM

                                    • Re: Does anyone use NPM for Juniper Devices...

                                      Hi mjm--

                                      What link are you searching for? Do you mean a link for SW Support? Check here.

                                      Also, are you trying to add the Juniper MIB to the SW MIB? It seems like it. If so, check out The specified item was not found. tip.

                                      HTH,

                                      M

                                        • Re: Does anyone use NPM for Juniper Devices...
                                          jrmann1999

                                          SRX650, EX4200 EX2200, and SA6500 user here.

                                           

                                          Don't complain to solarwinds about the lack of support, complain to Juniper about the lack of standards.  There are generic MIBs that all devices can support(MIB-2) with counters for CPU/Memory/Temperature, I get this data on random devices all the time(I work in Broadcast TV) but Juniper requires the custom MIBs.

                                          I agree that there should be a future goal to support Juniper products more fully, but I hope you're putting pressure on Juniper to support standards.

                                            • Re: Does anyone use NPM for Juniper Devices...
                                              pstewart726

                                              Juniper could be blamed partially - however - Solarwinds should get their head out of the sand on this one too.  Solarwinds thinks with their "enterprise logic" way too much and seems to forget sometimes that there are many service providers that run their package as well (we're one of them).

                                              In other words, I"m surprised as well that Solarwinds doesn't have "native support" for Juniper devices - considering they are the 2nd largest router/switch/firewall company in the carrier/service provider space.

                                                • Re: Does anyone use NPM for Juniper Devices...
                                                  ctopaloglu


                                                  Juniper could be blamed partially - however - Solarwinds should get their head out of the sand on this one too.  Solarwinds thinks with their "enterprise logic" way too much and seems to forget sometimes that there are many service providers that run their package as well (we're one of them).

                                                  In other words, I"m surprised as well that Solarwinds doesn't have "native support" for Juniper devices - considering they are the 2nd largest router/switch/firewall company in the carrier/service provider space.

                                                   



                                                   

                                                  This is such a good explanation. Congratulations nexicom. You express all my feelings about SolarWinds company. Also I think WUG 15 is better and very much faster than SolarWinds Orion. I will replace it soon. I am waiting for my maintenance to end.

                                                  • Re: Does anyone use NPM for Juniper Devices...
                                                    ctopaloglu

                                                    We want out of the box support for Juniper devices!

                                                  • Re: Does anyone use NPM for Juniper Devices...
                                                    njoylif

                                                    I agree with jrmann1999, you can't fault SW for a vendor not following standards.  from a business perspective, SW can't go chasing all non-standard equipment.  Juniper is big, agreed.  Definitely hit your Juniper rep up on this issue for sure.

                                                    SW, in fact, has put effort into supporting Juniper natively even though they are not standard.  see blog/info on NPM 10.2, which does support Juniper natively.  It should be out soon and is in "release candidate" mode right now if you want to get it and check it out, you should be able to contact your rep.

                                                      • Re: Does anyone use NPM for Juniper Devices...
                                                        pstewart726

                                                        I agree with jrmann1999, you can't fault SW for a vendor not following standards.  from a business perspective, SW can't go chasing all non-standard equipment.  Juniper is big, agreed.  Definitely hit your Juniper rep up on this issue for sure.

                                                        SW, in fact, has put effort into supporting Juniper natively even though they are not standard.  see blog/info on NPM 10.2, which does support Juniper natively.  It should be out soon and is in "release candidate" mode right now if you want to get it and check it out, you should be able to contact your rep.

                                                        Ok... what would you suggest we tell our Juniper SE?  Please go back and reinvent all of your software to meet the needs of Solarwinds? We have ran close to a dozen network monitoring packages over the years and the only package we have run across that *doesn't* support Juniper natively is Solarwinds.  This includes some of the largest network monitoring platforms and also that of many open source options.  One of the sales pitches to buying commercial software is that you "don't have to do it yourself like open source" yet to date that has been the only way to get it done in Solarwinds.

                                                        Big?  Yes, the *biggest* network vendor in the world specific to the service provider segment.  Enterprise, I'm guessing at considerably smaller with Cisco/HP etc leading the way for now.

                                                        I haven't dug into a lot, but based on a number of other vendors that you are supporting natively ... are you telling me they ALL follow your standards?  If that was true, I don't see why you would have such a large MIB collection to deal with unless I'm missing something?

                                                        Overall, we're pretty happy with Solarwinds so please take my comments as constructive - but as with IPv6, so far all I hear is excuses and "he who yells the loudest gets the support for products/features".  I know it's "coming soon" but Juniper support as well as I just mentioned IPv6 support should have been done a few years ago ... not after a number of lengthy threads are started by customers asking why you don't have support today in place.

                                                        • Re: Does anyone use NPM for Juniper Devices...
                                                          smartd
                                                          SW just chooses to implement Cisco's Enterprise MIBs natively.  Calls Juniper "not following standards" to use their own Enterprise MIBs.  Granted, they could and  should use the v2 MIBs instead of enterprise mibs, but everyone does this.  Choosing to ignore Juniper, just like ignoring Trapeze Wireless (now Juniper)  is a business decision by SW.  Makes wireless functionality useless for me and makes me unhappy.  My complaint is that SW should give full disclosure that their product is optimized for Cisco, and other vendor devices will have reduced functionality.

                                                            • Re: Does anyone use NPM for Juniper Devices...
                                                              jspanitz

                                                              I do hope they ramp up Juniper support soon.  10.2 is a good step, but our Juniper SSL vpns are still out of scope since they use Junipers DMI management interface.  I hope Solarwinds decides to go down that path since we can get NCM backups then too.

                                                              Since Juniper has a streamlined product line and much simpler junos OS version release policy, I would think it should be simpler to support once they commit to it.

                                                                • Re: Does anyone use NPM for Juniper Devices...
                                                                  pstewart726

                                                                  As much as I have complained a lot lately about lack of Juniper support, we have no issues with NCM and Juniper devices - we back up all our Juniper equipment daily with it.  Are you having problems doing so?

                                                                  I do hope they ramp up Juniper support soon.  10.2 is a good step, but our Juniper SSL vpns are still out of scope since they use Junipers DMI management interface.  I hope Solarwinds decides to go down that path since we can get NCM backups then too.

                                                                  Since Juniper has a streamlined product line and much simpler junos OS version release policy, I would think it should be simpler to support once they commit to it.

                                                  • Re: Does anyone use NPM for Juniper Devices...
                                                    fcaron

                                                    Kim,

                                                    The numbering you are refering to ("1.0") is probably due to sub-interfaces configured on physical interfaces (hence teh 2-level numbering) being used in your SSG (VLAN, tunnels). Can you confirm that this is what you are looking for?

                                                    FYI there is another thread about sub-interfaces here: Juniper Netscreen sub-interfaces?

                                                    Active requirement, we are looking at it.

                                                    I am also recording MJM's interest for CPU and Memory. Can you confirm what device you are running? Routers or firewalls? (16938)

                                                    Byrona, tks for your contribution.

                                              • Re: Does anyone use NPM for Juniper Devices...
                                                adeimel

                                                I've posted a couple of NPM juniper pollers on the content exchange that youcan probably use as templates. I've had no issues getting details out of 4200/8200s as well as the SRXs.

                                                I'll agree setting up UnDP is a bit confusing the first couple of times through, but it is possible to get the info you want.

                                                • Re: Does anyone use NPM for Juniper Devices...
                                                  sja

                                                  I think its more "matter of will" den Mibs2 support

                                                   Its sure work for the EX3200 in the solarwind demo

                                                   

                                                  • Re: Does anyone use NPM for Juniper Devices...
                                                    skullone

                                                    Another vote. We just picked up SWI with some big unlimited licenses, and getting detailed monitoring into our environment, and noticing severe lack of native Juniper device monitoring.
                                                    Something we didn't explore during eval, but quite annoying now, since our previous network device monitoring (Cacti) had pretty good support, and was free.

                                                    • Re: Does anyone use NPM for Juniper Devices...
                                                      smartd
                                                      Regarding Juniper Interfaces.
                                                      Juniper has physical interfaces, and logical interfaces.  When you define an interface, you assign it to a unit, which is the number after the decimal, i.e. ge-0/0/0.0  For layer 2 you assign unit 0 to the family ethernet-switching, and with IP to Inet.  So every interface on a Juniper has a "sub-interface" which is Cisco-ease.  However, errors are part of the physical interface, so you need monitor the physical interface. IP addresses, LLDP, and Netflow(SFLOW) are tied to the logical interface.  Juniper also assigns Unit number for VLANS much like CIsco sub-interfaces.

                                                      I guess the key here is that SW should not consider the Unit 0 logical interface to be a sub-interface, but part of the physical interface.

                                                        • Re: Does anyone use NPM for Juniper Devices...
                                                          ctopaloglu
                                                          Regarding Juniper Interfaces. Juniper has physical interfaces, and logical interfaces. When you define an interface, you assign it to a unit, which is the number after the decimal, i.e. ge-0/0/0.0 For layer 2 you assign unit 0 to the family ethernet-switching, and with IP to Inet. So every interface on a Juniper has a "sub-interface" which is Cisco-ease. However, errors are part of the physical interface, so you need monitor the physical interface. IP addresses, LLDP, and Netflow(SFLOW) are tied to the logical interface. Juniper also assigns Unit number for VLANS much like CIsco sub-interfaces. I guess the key here is that SW should not consider the Unit 0 logical interface to be a sub-interface, but part of the physical interface.

                                                           



                                                          I aggree.

                                                            • Re: Does anyone use NPM for Juniper Devices...
                                                              fcaron

                                                              I agree with this, on Juniper routers (JunOS), which is different than on Juniper ScreenOs (SSg's)

                                                              On routers, we have a requirement open (63744), to handle the fact that the physical interface has some attributes / metrics and the attached sub-interface (usually 1:1 mapping) has other attributes and metrics. Managing them as 2 different objects is artificial and the requirement is to collapse (combine) these 2 objects into a single one, that will support all attributes/metrics from the originally separated objects.

                                                              My read of your description above, is that it confirms my view above.

                                                              I will add your voice to this requirement.

                                                               

                                                              This requirement is not in the 10.2 currently in RC.