14 Replies Latest reply on May 27, 2011 7:39 PM by rgward

    Network Map & Topology Difficulties

    byrona

      I am having difficulties using the Network Map and Topology capabilities in NPM.  I have gotten bits and pieces to work here and there but never fully in the way that I would expect. 

      I have the NPM Network Topology resource on my Node Details page but it doesn't have information for many of my nodes.  Also, Connect Now seems to have limited details on my topology as well.

      I have a few questions that will hopefully help me sort this out so that I can make use of these features...

      • What information does Orion collect from nodes to determine topology?
        • How is this information collected?
      • What is the proper process to get Orion to collect topology data on my nodes?
      • What type of devices should I expect to get details for?
        • Are there devices that I won't get this information from?
      • Are there specific configurations needed on my nodes for this to work?

      If others are successfully making use of these capabilities I would be interested to hear what you did to get it working.

      Thanks in advance for any suggestions on this!

      P.S.  I have read other posts and watched the videos on this but none of that has helped.

        • Re: Network Map & Topology Difficulties
          netlogix

          Have you tried downloading a trial copy of SW's LAN Surveyor and see if that maps the ports out right?

          I worked with support once and they had me use  that to see if it could get the topology (i think they jacked the  technology/logic out of that to add to Orion).  If it won't get the  topology, then there is something weird with the technology/setup, but if it did, then there was something weird with Orion.  I wasn't getting any topology  because I use VLANs and Orion didn't have some of the options set right,  but I think they fixed that.

          I use a scheduled discovery for a list of nodes and populate the list based on what is in Orion already.  (I'll figure out how I did that and post it in a bit)

            • Re: Network Map & Topology Difficulties
              byrona

              I use a scheduled discovery for a list of nodes and populate the list based on what is in Orion already.  (I'll figure out how I did that and post it in a bit)

              When you do the scheduled discovery of already existing nodes, do you re-add them to Orion?  How do you handle that?

                • Re: Network Map & Topology Difficulties
                  netlogix

                  I had to set this up again; I didn't have it in my production environment, just the test one that has been deleted.

                  This is what I did:

                  Create/Modify a Discovery Profile:
                    Create snmp list
                    Uncheck poll for VMware
                    Change to "Specific Nodes" (!!!! important for SQL query below !!!!)
                      Add one IP address that I know is in Orion
                    Give Name, i.e. "Weekly Discovery"
                      Check Use SNMP only
                    Frequency Custom, i.e. 168 hours
                    No, Don't run Now

                  Open SQL studio/manager, browse to NetPerfMon DB
                    Select top XX "DiscoveryProfiles", find and save the ProfileID of the Profile you just created
                    Run this SQL query (edit "<PUT PROFILE ID HERE>"):
                  -------------------------------------
                  Insert into DiscoveryProfileIPBulk
                    Select <PUT PROFILE ID HERE>, IP_Address
                      From Nodes
                      Where ObjectSubType = 'SNMP'
                        and IP_Address not in (
                            Select Host
                              From DiscoveryProfileIPBulk
                              Where ProfileID = <PUT PROFILE ID HERE>
                            )
                  Delete from DiscoveryProfileIPBulk
                    Where Host not in (Select IP_Address from Nodes) and ProfileID = <PUT PROFILE ID HERE>
                  -------------------------------------

                  Run the Discovery job.

                  While that’s going, schedule that SQL query to run on a daily/weekly/whatever basis. Then go get lunch, take a nap and get a cup of coffee.

                  Now import something through this discovery. Hey! mine is missing too!!!  OK, I think we need to open a ticket... something is not right, I thought is was just that the thing is a little complicated, but somethings weird here.

                  This kinda works for a re-occurring discovery... not that pretty, kinda like duct tape...

                  I think this whole thing should be added as part of the internal scheduled re-discovery, but that just my opinion.

                  I wonder if you could re-discover the switches only to get the topo data (once things are fixed).  Like modify the insert where to have something like IP_Address like '10.%.x.%' or caption like '%-SW%' or Vendor = 'Cisco'

                    • Re: Network Map & Topology Difficulties
                      byrona

                      If I recall I had submitted a feature request that basically just goes through all nodes in the Orion DB (or some specified set of nodes) and updates Topology Data.

                      I personally think that the discovery and updating of Topology Data and Node Discovery are two separate things and should be separated within Orion.  Admittedly, they do have some overlap but I shouldn't have to go discover the stuff that's already in the DB just to get updated Topo data... but that's just my opinion.  = )

                        • Re: Network Map & Topology Difficulties
                          byrona

                          I am still struggling to get the Topology discovery stuff to work. 

                          I added a new switch, and added it to Orion.  To try and capture Topology data on it and it's connected devices I did a discovery on just the IP of the switch and set it to go 1 hop out.  I then imported the results of the discovery.  After doing this I still have zero Topology data on this switch and it's connected devices.

                          Can somebody tell me what I am doing wrong?

                            • Re: Network Map & Topology Difficulties
                              bshopp

                              Here is how it currently works.

                              We gather the topology data during network sonar discovery.  Are the devices you are trying to map L2 or L3 devices?

                              We are looking to break this out from discovery into it's own polling job in a future release, but this is how it works today.

                                • Re: Network Map & Topology Difficulties
                                  byrona

                                  It's an L2 HP ProCurve Switch.

                                  Based on the process I outlined above, would you expect that to get the topology data or was I doing something incorrectly?

                                    • Re: Network Map & Topology Difficulties
                                      bshopp

                                      Does that device support the bridge mib?  Check this KB out here

                                        • Re: Network Map & Topology Difficulties
                                          byrona

                                          Yes, I was able to use the MIB Browser and confirm that both of those MIB's in the KB return data.

                                          • Re: Network Map & Topology Difficulties
                                            byrona

                                            Also, when I use the Neighborhood Map in the Engineers Toolset for this Switch it maps it as expected.

                                            • Re: Network Map & Topology Difficulties
                                              byrona

                                              So, any thoughts on why I can see that the necessary data is available and the devices and I am able to generate the maps with the Neighborhood Map in the Engineers Toolset, however; the topology discovery in NPM continues to give me nothing?

                                                • Re: Network Map & Topology Difficulties
                                                  fcaron

                                                  Are all the devices that you want to discover topology between, in the SAME Network Sonar discovery profile?

                                                  If yes and this still does not work, you should open a case.

                                                    • Re: Network Map & Topology Difficulties
                                                      byrona

                                                      Yes, on the several attempts I have made they have always been in the same discovery profile.  On at least one attempt I generated a list of all existing IP's in Orion using Report Writer and then put that list into the discovery profile.  The end result was very underwhelming, it showed topology data for a few devices but that was it.

                                                      On my more recent attempts to test I just scanned a few of our network devices with it set to go one hop out, this also used a single discovery profile.  On these attempts I didn't get any topology data at all as far as I can tell.

                                                      Overall I have had very little luck with any of it working.  An a tangential note, it seems that collecting updated topology data for existing systems is more difficult than it should be, maybe I am missing something.

                                                      • Re: Network Map & Topology Difficulties
                                                        rgward

                                                        I too am having trouble getting topology data to work too for all our nodes.  Some data seems to get populated but most nodes show nothing or only partial data.  We have 1500+ routers and switches.  We also have 3 pollers.  Do you have to run a Sonar network discovery for each poller?  In regard to the import, do all interfaces have to be re-imported?  We do not want to import uninteresting interfaces (e.g., access ports) which we do not currently monitor in NPM.  We're only interested in interfaces configured as backbone and uplinks.

                                                         

                                                        Francois, I hope your statement "We are looking to break this out from discovery into it's own polling job in a future release." in regard to topology only discovery feature is coming real soon.  It is desperately needed.