14 Replies Latest reply on Jul 25, 2008 2:41 PM by chris.schear

    v9 - Changes to Graphs

    chris.schear

       Do you honestly believe the graphical changes to the graphs is an improvement?  Here are some issues I have with the changes...

      1.  The Average bps - Line Chart graph literally gives me a headache.  I can't stand to look at it.  The blue/green colors and narrow lines seem blurry.
      2.  The Received/Transmitted "Legend" in the Average bps - Line Chart...can you tell me you can actually SEE those colors on the skinny lines?  v8 had a "block" so you could view more than a hair.
      3.  X-Axis time changes, details pretty much useless.  v8 had hour increments with little 'up spikes' to show placement.  v9 goes from 3am to 6am, no 'up spikes'.  Interpretting the data from the chart axis information is all but impossible in v9.
      4.  General font/text size...don't like what you've done, at all.  If you look at the Average bps - Line Chart in v9, the "0.0 bps" on the Y-Axis and the "2 Wed" on the X-Axis even overlap.  You've made certain text HUGE, larger than it need be, and in general skewed the overall look/design of the display with inconsistencies.

      I don't view v9s, "New improved look for graphs and gauges" to be anything but New.  I can see no Improvement here.  Just my opinion.  I can't believe the beta testers didn't call this out.

        • Re: v9 - Changes to Graphs
          chris.schear

           Another example...again, is this honestly considered an improvement?  The orientation and formatting of the text still really bugs me.  Notice the word, "Target" on the chart Title and the word, "Time".  The "g" in Target and the "T" in Time overlap.  Something else I find concerning, is my v8 installation and my v9 installation poll from the SAME database.  This is a view of the ICMP response from a VPN tunnel to Target.  Notice how the % packet loss is different on each chart?

          I'm going to hold off upgrading my production Orion server to v9 simply because I think the charts are horrible.




          • Re: v9 - Changes to Graphs
            rgward
            3.  X-Axis time changes, details pretty much useless.  v8 had hour increments with little 'up spikes' to show placement.  v9 goes from 3am to 6am, no 'up spikes'.  Interpretting the data from the chart axis information is all but impossible in v9.



            Good post.  I agree.  Where the heck are the tick marks?  This is definitely hard to read.


            Thanks for your feedback and examples Chris.  I see all your other points as big issues too.  I'm going to hold off our upgrade to v9 for now.   I see nothing but questions and complaints from our engineers and management.  I don't need'em.  Hopefully, SW will fix this quickly.

              • Re: v9 - Changes to Graphs
                chris.schear

                I imagine customers everywhere will be complaining about v9.  I'm perfectly willing to contend I'm a very vocal, if not the most vocal (read; critical) about NPM changes in HTML/coding cosmetics over the years, and I can say in v9 I'm still not all that impressed.  The Blue/Green combinations on charts don't even make good design choices due to the fact there are many folks who are color blind or are vision impaired and those two, even with good eyes, are hard to discern between each other.  I also understand the color choices are probably carry overs from MRTG, but at least that Blue/Green were more contrasting.

                http://oldwww.jrobin.org/images/mrtg/mrtg-client-daily.png

                I'm still waiting on SolarWinds to develop an Admin option to actually "fully customize your display", as their product bullet points declare.  Bullet point #2:

                "Provides a highly intuitive, customizable web interface "

                I'm looking for an interface in which you have a nice customization page for modifying HTML/CSS elements within the GUI.  Want your link hover color to be red?  Underlined or not?  Want custom colors, backgrounds in resources, font faces...sizes...etc.?  ...just access the "Portal Customization" section!  Don't get me wrong, in the late 90's, Orion was an outstanding application (and still is), but the web front end and HTML/CSS coding hasn't kept up with current design standards.  While the application engine is always improving, the graphical front-end is lagging.

                It's not "bad", but I still expect more out of a web-enabled product in 2008.

                  • Re: v9 - Changes to Graphs
                    denny.lecompte
                    .  I'm perfectly willing to contend I'm a very vocal, if not the most vocal (read; critical) about NPM changes in HTML/coding cosmetics over the years, and I can say in v9 I'm still not all that impressed. 
                     

                    Well, Chris, I can't argue with that.  I've been here for about two years, and you've greeted every NPM release with a big heap of criticism.  And typically, some of it is dead on (we're hardly perfect), and some of it, while true, is specific to your particular tastes or to your very specific needs around custom HTML.  This thread seems about par for the course:  You've made some good points, of few of which were made by Beta testers, and several graph-related issues are already targeted for a service pack.  However, we actually got fairly positive feedback in Beta regarding the look of the graphs, which issimilar to what we have been shipping in our NetFlow and Application Performance modules.  So, while we respect your aesthetic judgments, we'll have to agree to disagree on that one.

                    I'm a fairly (very?) critical person myself, so I don't mind criticism.  Please keep it constructive, but do keep it coming.
                      • Re: v9 - Changes to Graphs
                        WINNT

                        However, we actually got fairly positive feedback in Beta regarding the look of the graphs, which issimilar to what we have been shipping in our NetFlow and Application Performance modules.  So, while we respect your aesthetic judgments, we'll have to agree to disagree on that one.

                         



                        I would agree that on the surface the graphs "look" better, but as far as functionality, they are lacking.  It seems to me that SolarWinds is trying to cover up whitespace in the charts that look similar to the missed polls that we all hate. 

                          • Re: v9 - Changes to Graphs
                            uscallesen

                            I like the new grapics used for the charts - however from a 'funtional' perspective they're just terrible.



                             Take a look at this 7-day time period - there is no way of telling when in the past 7 days a reading was taken - and even worse If you choose the send the chart to someone via email (as we do when we report errors) you cant make any meaning of the chart as there are no days, dates or anything.

                              • Re: v9 - Changes to Graphs
                                tdanner

                                We completely agree about the time axis labels on multi-day charts. That's a bug that will be fixed in a service pack soon.

                                  • Re: v9 - Changes to Graphs
                                    qle
                                    Having a little trouble with the Min/Max/Average Percent Utilization chart after the upgrade to v9. As you can see below, with three different time periods, I'm losing the min/max receive and min/max transmit results on the right side. For example, for the 30-day time period, the graph shows all of the information for 12-hour intervals. If I lower the interval to 6 hours, therefore increasing the samples/data points to graph, I lose the min/max graphs.



                                    The graphs below demonstrate the cutover intervals where the graphs are lost (i.e. at 30 days, I lose the graphs at 6-hour intervals or lower. at 7 days, I lose them at 1-hour and lower, etc.)



                                    At first, I thought Orion was having trouble with the number of data points being graphed. However, you can clearly see the number of samples for the 30 day (6-hour interval) graph is 120 whereas for today (10-minute interval), the number of samples is 144, which graphs properly. Can anyone else reproduce this?
                                      • Re: v9 - Changes to Graphs
                                        qle
                                        Bump. Just trying to figure whether anyone else can reproduce this on v9 or is it a problem with my installation?
                                          • Re: v9 - Changes to Graphs
                                            savell

                                            qle, I didn't see your post before - but yes, I have the same issue.

                                            I raised a support ticket yesterday with both 8.5.1 and 9.0 screen shots (the issue doesn't occur with 8.5.1).

                                            Dave.

                                              • Re: v9 - Changes to Graphs
                                                qle
                                                Dave,



                                                I do recall this same graph displaying properly in 8.5.1. I appreciate the reply.
                                                  • Re: v9 - Changes to Graphs
                                                    BryanBecker
                                                    I just upgraded to V9 and I'm seeing something different.  What I mean is from my interface charts that most of them have bold blue/green lines.  My percent utilization chart uses what I would say is non-bolded lines.  Here is what I mean.  I would think the top graph lines would be the same like the bottom graph.
                                                      • Re: v9 - Changes to Graphs
                                                        chris.schear

                                                        With the additional graphs posted in this thread, I still contend the 8.5.1 graphs were much easier to read and interpret.  I attribute this opinion to the "blurred" graphics used to display the lines/bars, as well as the LACK of X-axis and Y-axis tick marks on Time and Value.  When the X-axis reads, "9:00 AM", at what point in that text should you draw your eyes upward to the graph to actually see what the value was at 9am?  Midway between the text of "9:00 AM", which would be about at the end of the second "0"?  When you are considering the fact you're charting/graphing data that is very likely going to be utilized for troubleshooting and analysis purposes (not just serving as 'pretty charts'), the lack of detail makes them absolutely fluffy...and useless.

                                                         

                                                        And, I'm still not going to upgrade my NPM while these charts/graphs look and present themselves the way they do.  It would be a downgrade, as far as I'm concerned, regarding easy of use, usefulness, and functional purpose.