37 Replies Latest reply on Jun 17, 2009 1:16 PM by pserwe

    Copy/Paste for all Solarwinds products

    jp

      Please remove the Clipboard protection when the software is bought and paid-for and leave it enabled only for demo customers.  I understand it is used to protect revenue, but the "feature" is so bug-ridden that a real copy only works one tenth of the time on any solarwinds product.

        • Re: Copy/Paste for all Solarwinds products
          aLTeReGo

          What is "Clipboard protection" and how is it used to "protect revenue"?

            • Re: Copy/Paste for all Solarwinds products
              SamuelB

               What is "Clipboard protection" and is this why copy and paste doesn't work correctly in Solarwinds products?

                • Re: Copy/Paste for all Solarwinds products
                  denny.lecompte

                  I'm kind of curious myself.  There's nothing intentional, and even if there were, I don't see how it would protect revenue.  Everything Orion collects is stored in a wide-open SQL Server database, so why prevent you from copying and pasting?    More importantly, what are you trying to accomplish?  What's standing in the way of your success?  Maybe there's something we can change...

                    • Re: Copy/Paste for all Solarwinds products
                      jp

                      Beats me how this is implemented.  Solarwinds has some kind of hook in all of its apps that interferes with copy and paste, to prevent exportation into an excel document, text file, whatever it may be.


                      For some reason, this "protection" is still enabled, and I'm almost crippled from copy&paste on Solarwinds products (And only solarwinds products).


                      For example, installing a trial edition of the Engineers toolkit will not allow you to export the results, copy a result and put it into notepad.  I have since bought and paid for Engineers toolkit, and while I don't get any warnings when I try to copy (Ctrl+c), it doesn't really seem to "stick" and I have to try about 10 times for it to actually get into my clipboard.


                      I've had issues with the SQL Database manager as well, when copying a field sometimes crashes the application with a runtime error.


                      This does not occur with any other applications on my management machine.  My feature request is to simply remove the copy/paste "hook" from Solarwinds apps when they are paid for and verified.

                        • Re: Copy/Paste for all Solarwinds products

                          It is a fact that copy and paste functionality in Orion is horrible.  Many times it works for a couple of tries and then it abruptly exits the whatever program you're working in.  It is a major menace and really needs to be fixed.  I don't know if it potection or just bad programming or something else interfering with the funtionality, but it needs to be fixed.  For those of us with many networks, maps etc, it is a huge inconvenience to have all the problems that are associated withthe cut and paster functions within Orion.


                           


                          TR


                           


                          Diebold, Inc.


                            • Re: Copy/Paste for all Solarwinds products
                              denny.lecompte

                              We don't do anything to block copy and paste in Orion.  If you give me very detailed instances where it doesn't work, I will open a bug.   The descriptions so far are too vague for us to fix.

                                • Re: Copy/Paste for all Solarwinds products
                                  aLTeReGo

                                    If you give me very detailed instances where it doesn't work, I will open a bug


                                  Denny please see Syslog Viewer Copy to clipboard crash


                                   


                                    • Re: Copy/Paste for all Solarwinds products
                                      jp

                                      Denny, my response to your question is; "ALL copy and paste operations in ALL Solarwinds products".


                                      Load some up, do some copy and pasting as if you're trying to record some data for a script somewhere.


                                      EXAMPLE:  Custom SQL query in database manager: "select * from Interfaces Where NodeID =11", and try to copy some fields a few times.  You're sure to have a crash for a runtime error.  Copy operations are so bad in this application that I simply do not copy any data at all into the clipboard.


                                      EXAMPLE:  Solarwinds Orion custom properties editor.  View a node list.  Make ac ustom property,  "City", and fill it in once.  (Ex: Winnipeg).  Copy this field once (Ctrl+c) and try to paste it somewhere else.  You'll notice your clipboard is empty 9/10 times, requiring mulitple Ctrl+C's just to get it to stick.


                                      EXAMPLE: Solarwinds Map Editor.  Copy a node object or a group of nodes, and paste it.  This will work maybe 5 times and the application will quit, hard.


                                      EXAMPLE: Solarwinds switchport mapper.  Copy a few rows.  This will also crash after a few times with a runtime error.


                                      EXAMPLE:  Solarwinds Cirrus script editor.  Write a simple script, and try to copy it from the script editor and into notepad, or duplicate some results.  Copy will not work 9/10ths of the time and your buffer will be empty.


                                      EXAMPLE:  Solarwinds Orion system manager.  Copy an SNMP community string from one node and paste it to the other.  The clipboard will not pick up the new SNMP community 9/10 times.  (Doublechecked; SNMP Communities do not have this problem)


                                      EXAMPLE: Solarwinds Orion system manager, graph view. Copy to clipboard right-click operation doesn't work every time, clipboard turns out to be empty.


                                      EXAMPLE:  Solarwinds Engineers netflow editor.  Try to copy the system names of a top 10 object.  The application will either crash with a runtime error, or not copy anything at all.


                                       --Proof of concept of the solarwinds orion copy paste is easy to do but one i am not willing to replicate due to paid-for software:  Install any solarwinds trial software, and try to copy some data.  "Solarwinds <xx> trial edition does not allow you to copy any data, please purchase the full product" or some variation thereof.

                                        • Re: Copy/Paste for all Solarwinds products
                                          bleearg13


                                          Denny, my response to your question is; "ALL copy and paste operations in ALL Solarwinds products".

                                          Load some up, do some copy and pasting as if you're trying to record some data for a script somewhere.

                                          EXAMPLE:  Custom SQL query in database manager: "select * from Interfaces Where NodeID =11", and try to copy some fields a few times.  You're sure to have a crash for a runtime error.  Copy operations are so bad in this application that I simply do not copy any data at all into the clipboard.

                                          EXAMPLE:  Solarwinds Orion custom properties editor.  View a node list.  Make ac ustom property,  "City", and fill it in once.  (Ex: Winnipeg).  Copy this field once (Ctrl+c) and try to paste it somewhere else.  You'll notice your clipboard is empty 9/10 times, requiring mulitple Ctrl+C's just to get it to stick.

                                          EXAMPLE: Solarwinds Map Editor.  Copy a node object or a group of nodes, and paste it.  This will work maybe 5 times and the application will quit, hard.

                                          EXAMPLE: Solarwinds switchport mapper.  Copy a few rows.  This will also crash after a few times with a runtime error.

                                          EXAMPLE:  Solarwinds Cirrus script editor.  Write a simple script, and try to copy it from the script editor and into notepad, or duplicate some results.  Copy will not work 9/10ths of the time and your buffer will be empty.

                                          EXAMPLE:  Solarwinds Orion system manager.  Copy an SNMP community string from one node and paste it to the other.  The clipboard will not pick up the new SNMP community 9/10 times.  (Doublechecked; SNMP Communities do not have this problem)

                                          EXAMPLE: Solarwinds Orion system manager, graph view. Copy to clipboard right-click operation doesn't work every time, clipboard turns out to be empty.

                                          EXAMPLE:  Solarwinds Engineers netflow editor.  Try to copy the system names of a top 10 object.  The application will either crash with a runtime error, or not copy anything at all.

                                           --Proof of concept of the solarwinds orion copy paste is easy to do but one i am not willing to replicate due to paid-for software:  Install any solarwinds trial software, and try to copy some data.  "Solarwinds <xx> trial edition does not allow you to copy any data, please purchase the full product" or some variation thereof.

                                           

                                           

                                          To expand upon this, I've noticed that in Custom Property Editor, if Ctrl+C doesn't work, you have to double-click the custom property, highlight the text, then right-click and select 'Copy', then you can paste the data into other fields.  Everyone here is correct that the copy & paste functionality in, yes, ALL Solarwinds products is quite lacking and buggy and I find it difficult to believe that it can't be reproduced in-house.  If it helps, I'm pretty sure that everyone here is accessing all their SW products through Terminal Services or Remote Desktop, so maybe that has something to do with it.

                                          I have provided information to SW before on this and it's never gotten fixed/"reproduced" in-house.

                                            • Re: Copy/Paste for all Solarwinds products
                                              BryanBecker

                                              I thought the copy/paste was a Windows issue for some reason...but I know what people are talking about...I see it too.  I see it alot in Cirrus where I try to copy a device configuration from the server to my local machine or sometime even on the same server.  I try to highlight the text top-down, bottom-up, etc and sometimes it works and others it doesn't.  I agree it can be very frustrating.

                                              BB

                                                • Re: Copy/Paste for all Solarwinds products
                                                  jonchill

                                                  Is anything being looked at or done with this as it isvery frustrating particularly when your working with custom property editor and trying to paste the same info into half a dozen other cells and also trying to copy in NCM from the config of a switch to a script for uploading 9 times out of ten it won't work.

                                                  Please do something about this it would make life so much easier and quicker.

                                                    • Re: Copy/Paste for all Solarwinds products
                                                      bleearg13


                                                      Is anything being looked at or done with this as it isvery frustrating particularly when your working with custom property editor and trying to paste the same info into half a dozen other cells and also trying to copy in NCM from the config of a switch to a script for uploading 9 times out of ten it won't work.

                                                      Please do something about this it would make life so much easier and quicker.

                                                       

                                                       

                                                      Yes, please.  I know it's a pain, jonchill, but does my post above work for you in the Custom Property Editor?

                                                        • Re: Copy/Paste for all Solarwinds products
                                                          jonchill

                                                           Bleeard13, yes your workaround does work but not idle.

                                                            • Re: Copy/Paste for all Solarwinds products
                                                              ecornwell

                                                              I just tried to copy from the OID Viewer portion of the trap viewer tool and got the following message:


                                                              "Copying to the Windows clipboard is not enabled in the Evaluation version.


                                                              You will need to purcahse a license in order to enable all the feature of this program."


                                                              We own NPM...

                                                                • Re: Copy/Paste for all Solarwinds products
                                                                  denny.lecompte

                                                                   Looks like a bug.  Please open a support ticket so that we can track it.

                                                                  • Re: Copy/Paste for all Solarwinds products
                                                                    jp

                                                                    ecornwell, it's exactly this 'hook' into the Windows Clipboard that needs to be entirely disabled.

                                                                    I will open a support case on this today, it's been bugging me for years, most lately within Orion NCM - I have to try 15-20 times to successfully ctrl+c something.

                                                                      • Re: Copy/Paste for all Solarwinds products
                                                                        jonchill

                                                                        Hopefully they might listen to you as I've had a call logged before for Cirrus and copy\paste and got fed up with all the questions and tests to try and then they still didn't admit to the problem. I think it might take almost a group logging of multiple issues to do with copy and paste before they start to listen.

                                                                          • Re: Copy/Paste for all Solarwinds products
                                                                            aLTeReGo

                                                                            I think it might take almost a group logging of multiple issues to do with copy and paste before they start to listen.

                                                                            If that's the case I think that's terribly unfortunate. Especially since the problem is rampant in many, if not all Solarwinds products. Most notably, the Orion SNMP Trap Viewer, and Orion Syslog Viewer. What I find most frustrating is how long this has been a problem, and how easy it is to reproduce. As many have stated before, it happens more often then not. I.E. More than 50% of the time.

                                                                            I am a very loyal Solarwinds customer, and I can say this is not typical. Usually most bugs that I discover are quickly squashed. I'm not really sure why this one has not yet been addressed.

                                                                              • Re: Copy/Paste for all Solarwinds products
                                                                                denny.lecompte

                                                                                So here's the deal.  We've realized for a while that  we need to improve our Syslog and SNMP Trap solution.  Rather than investing more effort into the existing tools, we decided to acquire Kiwi's Syslog Server (which is also a Trap Server).  While we will keep free and standalone versions of those tools, our plan is to integrate the superior Kiwi product into Orion. 

                                                                                Not sure exactly when we'll make it happen because we have to be able to migrate Orion rules and existing data. 

                                                                                I'm not saying we won't deal with the annoying bugs like copy/paste, but our priority is a more substantial game-changing solution to syslog and trap issues.

                                                                                  • Re: Copy/Paste for all Solarwinds products
                                                                                    aLTeReGo

                                                                                    As always Denny, an excellent response. I look forward to seeing Kiwi integrated into Orion and replacing the existing SNMP Trap and Syslog viewers.

                                                                                    • Re: Copy/Paste for all Solarwinds products
                                                                                      jp

                                                                                      Denny, does this mean I shouldn't put in a support ticket request?  I'm not sure what it'll gain, but it's easily reproducable.  It sounds like it's been submitted before, but I wouldn't exactly call it a 'supportable' issue, as I doubt there isn't anything that support can do to fix a programming bug with me over the phone.

                                                                                      The short answer here is remove the copy/paste 'hooks' into the clipboard on all solarwinds products, this will certainly fix the problem. Who cares if we can copy/paste from trial products, they expire within 30 days anyway and I don't think Solarwinds would lose revenue over users unable to copy/paste. =)

                                                                                        • Re: Copy/Paste for all Solarwinds products
                                                                                          denny.lecompte

                                                                                          To be honest, we're aware of the problem.  It's an issue of prioritization.  Opening the ticket won't make it go faster, which is why I brought up our direction w/r/t Kiwi.

                                                                                            • Re: Copy/Paste for all Solarwinds products
                                                                                              jonchill

                                                                                              I would prefer to have the copy\paste issue sorted out as its been outstanding for so long  in multiple product before you improve a single product, trying to copy and paste in NCM is not worth even trying as its so frustrating. Come on it can't be that difficult or time comsuming to sort the problem out.

                                                                                                • Re: Copy/Paste for all Solarwinds products
                                                                                                  denny.lecompte

                                                                                                  Come on it can't be that difficult or time comsuming to sort the problem out.

                                                                                                  That's an easy thing to say, but unless you're looking at the code of the product, it's a hard claim to justify.  I understand your preference for prioritizing this bug.  We do take it into account, but at the same time, we have to consider all of the other requests customers are making and try to solve for the best overall outcome. 

                                                                                                    • Re: Copy/Paste for all Solarwinds products
                                                                                                      jp

                                                                                                      Some more fuel on the fire...

                                                                                                      No v10 fix =(

                                                                                                        • Re: Copy/Paste for all Solarwinds products
                                                                                                          bleearg13

                                                                                                          I did a bit of testing with this today.  My original theory seems correct, at least in my case, in that these clipboard issues have to do with using RDP to the Orion server.  I connected to my Orion server via RDP, but de-selected "Clipboard" in the "Local Resources" tab of the RDP client.  I was able to copy and paste without one crash in the Syslog Viewer, Orion, and NCM.  Custom Property Editor, which never crashed, but 3/4 of the time just wouldn't copy anything to the clipboard, worked 100% of the time with copy/paste.  Can some others try this to see if they see the same thing?  At the very least, it will give SW something to work from so they can kill this bug once and for all.

                                                                                                            • Re: Copy/Paste for all Solarwinds products
                                                                                                              jp

                                                                                                              Verified! :)

                                                                                                              I was able to copy/paste at will in any solarwinds application when I disabled the RDP clipboard option at a (so far) 100% success rate, no crashes, no 'missed' copy/pastes.

                                                                                                              Of course, I always need to paste in/out of RDP, so .. =)

                                                                                                              I turned the RDP feature back on under the Database manager, and on my first copy-attempt in Report writer the application crashed, "Runtime error '521' can't open clipboard".  I was able to paste in/out of RDP at a 100% success rate when I was using non-solarwinds applications, like notepad, Internet explorer, etc.

                                                                                                              I'm sticking by my guns when I think this is buggy evaluation code sitting around in code repositories somewhere, that doesn't allow you to copy/paste from Solarwinds engineers toolset products when you haven't paid for your evaluation. 

                                                                                                               A text-search in the code database for the evaluation copy/paste errors might reveal the section(s) of codes in the common solarwinds libraries.

                                                                                • Re: Copy/Paste for all Solarwinds products
                                                                                  pserwe

                                                                                  I can personally guarantee that every person responding to this thread, myself included, can reliably reproduce the crashes..

                                                                                  EXAMPLE:  Open the trap or syslog viewer.  ctrl-C to get the trap or syslog data, go to paste it somewhere.  It always works for me the first time, then on the second time, it issues a run-time error as soon as there's a clipboard history in windows.

                                                                                  I think the products are expecting an older-style windows clipboard that was only a single buffer, when it hits the newer clipboard, with multiple buffers, it dies, spitting out the oh so helpful "runtime error" message.

                                                                                  As an aside, the move to push everyone into the web interface, by removing functionality, and refusing to further develop the windows user application side of the product is a pretty huge mistake.  I think just about everyone uses the product via RDP because RDP is about 800* faster than using the web ui.  Sure, the web ui makes a lot less work for dev, but the app interface makes the product usable if you need to do a lot.

                                                                                  I, a very significant portion of the rest of your client base, and some of your more senior support folks all agree that development of the userland side of the app needs to continue along with the web side.  Why do you guys ignore that kind of feedback from both internal and external sources?  Seems crazy to bite the hands that feed you.

                                                                                    • Re: Copy/Paste for all Solarwinds products
                                                                                      denny.lecompte

                                                                                      , a very significant portion of the rest of your client base, and some of your more senior support folks all agree that development of the userland side of the app needs to continue along with the web side.  Why do you guys ignore that kind of feedback from both internal and external sources?  Seems crazy to bite the hands that feed you.

                                                                                      There are certainly some customers who share your point of view, but I'm not sure how you know that it's a "significant portion".  We talk to customers every day on and off Thwack. We conduct surveys.  We have a pretty good idea of where their priorities are.  That doesn't mean we can deliver a set of features that will please everyone.  As for our Support staff, I walked over to the Support team and had a chat with them, and again, I don't think you accurately represent their position.

                                                                                      So to be clear, we are listening to feedback.  The main complaint that some folks have about the web is speed.  That's an issue we're working on.  There are raw performance issues, but there are also workflow changes that can speed tasks dramatically.

                                                                                      All that said, we are a long way from moving everything to the web.  We'll still have a mix for some years to come.

                                                                                        • Re: Copy/Paste for all Solarwinds products
                                                                                          pserwe


                                                                                          There are certainly some customers who share your point of view, but I'm not sure how you know that it's a "significant portion".  We talk to customers every day on and off Thwack. We conduct surveys.  We have a pretty good idea of where their priorities are.  That doesn't mean we can deliver a set of features that will please everyone.  As for our Support staff, I walked over to the Support team and had a chat with them, and again, I don't think you accurately represent their position.

                                                                                          So to be clear, we are listening to feedback.  The main complaint that some folks have about the web is speed.  That's an issue we're working on.  There are raw performance issues, but there are also workflow changes that can speed tasks dramatically.

                                                                                          All that said, we are a long way from moving everything to the web.  We'll still have a mix for some years to come.

                                                                                           



                                                                                          Anybody who actually uses the product on a daily basis.  From a management standpoint, I want a comprehensive web ui so I can give access to people in my group to do specific tasks.  From a "having to work with it" standpoint, I want a comprehensive windows userland app so I can do what I need to do and move on.  As for the support staff, I think you don't accurately represent their position, from the standpoint of getting their job done, they want a single unified UI, preferably on the web side, because it's simpler to troubleshoot, work with, and flow around when giving directions.  From the standpoint of using the product, it's a different story.  The question is, which objective are you really trying to fulfill?  Make the product more supportable, or more useful?  While I realize it's a balancing act, and when managing valuable dev resources, it's all about balancing, why would you guys REMOVE functionality just because you implemented in the web ui?  Why?  Because you want to push people away from using the userland apps at all.  Seems like you just did MORE work to make the product LESS usable.

                                                                                          Fix the speed first, move the app second, not the other way around.  The workflow changes are awesome, just adding custom properties if I need to add a single node, is great.  It's almost a good enough reason to use the web ui, if I only need to add one node.  If I need to add 10 nodes, it still sucks, and it's faster to use the userland app.  I'd like to see the userland app get the workflow changes the web ui gets, but that's not on the roadmap, understandably, even though I don't particularly like it.

                                                                                          There's another gigantic feature request I need to post out here, and it's a bit too far off the topic to thread-jack this one.

                                                                                          Peter

                                                                              • Re: Copy/Paste for all Solarwinds products
                                                                                aLTeReGo

                                                                                It is a fact that copy and paste functionality in Orion is horrible. 

                                                                                 

                                                                                Agreed. Copy and paste in many Orion components such as the Syslog Viewer is terrible at best. I was curious to learn if this was indeed part of some "Clipboard protection" scheme. And if so how it could be used to "protect revenue" since everything is exportable anyway and as stated above, sitting as clear text in a back end SQL database.

                                                                                The only conclusion I can come up with is bad programming followed up by an even worse QA process; but even that isn't true, since I've reported this exact same problem in every beta since Orion 7.8. You'd think a simple thing like copy/paste, that's existed as a basic feature of windows forever would be slam dunk and not something we'd be talking about for a product that's in version 8.5.

                                                                                  • Re: Copy/Paste for all Solarwinds products

                                                                                    It is a little to give exact details due the random nature of the issues but ......


                                                                                    I was creating several graphs in System Manager and cutting/pasting them into a word document.  After doing this for about three graphs on the fourth when I clicked on copy system manager shut down after an error.  Don't have the error code at the moment.


                                                                                     In map maker when cutting and pasting information I use in the labels, I have had the same experience several times where I would od a few with no issue and then on the next one the program throws out an error and shutdown mapmaker in very unceremonious way.


                                                                                     This has been going on since we first purchsed the program and it has never been addressed.  It has become an annoyance that we just live with and learn to try to work around, making sure we save data a lot more often than we normally due, becasue we know this function will eventually just blow up and whatever hasn't been saved is lost.


                                                                                     I will try to do some more work that involves this process during the week and see if I can document it better than it has been so far.


                                                                                     


                                                                                    Tom Riggs


                                                                                    Diebold, Inc.


                                                                                     


                                                                                     


                                                                                      • Re: Copy/Paste for all Solarwinds products
                                                                                        denny.lecompte

                                                                                        I was creating several graphs in System Manager and cutting/pasting them into a word document.  After doing this for about three graphs on the fourth when I clicked on copy system manager shut down after an error.  Don't have the error code at the moment.
                                                                                         

                                                                                        I'm curious.  Why use System Manager for graphs? What's the advantage of SM over the web console?

                                                                                         

                                                                                         In map maker when cutting and pasting information I use in the labels, I have had the same experience several times where I would od a few with no issue and then on the next one the program throws out an error and shutdown mapmaker in very unceremonious way.
                                                                                         

                                                                                        OK.  I'll see if we can reproduce. 

                                                                                          • Re: Copy/Paste for all Solarwinds products
                                                                                            jp

                                                                                            >>I'm curious.  Why use System Manager for graphs? What's the advantage of SM over the web console?

                                                                                            In all due respect, it doesn't matter why the system manager is chosen over the website tool, System Manager will either not pick up the graph or simply crash when it is copied.  This shouldn't happen.  System Manager is also faster than the web console and allows for rapid graph views with more options than the web view.