64 Replies Latest reply on Dec 16, 2019 9:43 AM by rfackrell

    $20,000 for 100 Node SAM License?

    martian monster

      I was working on setting up my Solarwinds lab environment to do some testing/experimenting and to have a lab environment first to apply updates and see if anything breaks.  I have access to some of the NFR software because I am a THWACK MVP but it did not include any SAM licensing so I figured I would reach out to sales and get a quote for a 100 node SAM license for the lab.  I got the quote back and my jaw dropped - $20,000 for 100 node SAM license for the lab but if I purchase now I can get 50% off by the end of the year...   at this point I am evaluating  the lab environment to see if I should set it up at all.  I need the SAM component but not for 20K initial then another 6K a year for maintenance.  Get your stuff together Solarwinds...

        • Re: $20,000 for 100 Node SAM License?
          serena

          https://thwack.solarwinds.com/people/martian%20monster  wrote:

           

          I was working on setting up my Solarwinds lab environment to do some testing/experimenting and to have a lab environment first to apply updates and see if anything breaks.  I have access to some of the NFR software because I am a THWACK MVP but it did not include any SAM licensing so I figured I would reach out to sales and get a quote for a 100 node SAM license for the lab.  I got the quote back and my jaw dropped - $20,000 for 100 node SAM license for the lab but if I purchase now I can get 50% off by the end of the year...   at this point I am evaluating  the lab environment to see if I should set it up at all.  I need the SAM component but not for 20K initial then another 6K a year for maintenance.  Get your stuff together Solarwinds...

          Hi Dave,

          Thanks for bringing up this concern. Is the lab environment that you're setting up purely SAM as a standalone product or would it be combined with others such as NPM?

            • Re: $20,000 for 100 Node SAM License?
              martian monster

              It would have NPM, NCM, and a few other modules.  We have lab setup - Cisco ACI, Servers, Exchange, etc and wanted something that is somewhat similar for testing/configurations/etc but that kind of pricing for a lab is really a bit crazy.

                • Re: $20,000 for 100 Node SAM License?
                  serena

                  https://thwack.solarwinds.com/people/martian%20monster  wrote:

                   

                  It would have NPM, NCM, and a few other modules.  We have lab setup - Cisco ACI, Servers, Exchange, etc and wanted something that is somewhat similar for testing/configurations/etc but that kind of pricing for a lab is really a bit crazy.

                  In that case really you just need to scope out a SAM license to cover the ones that have applications that you'll be monitoring. How did you estimate out that you need a SAM100 node license?

                    • Re: $20,000 for 100 Node SAM License?
                      martian monster

                      The rest of my NFR licensing is 100 node so I was keeping it all the same.  At this point I told the sales person never mind I have other more important things I can drop $20K on.

                        • Re: $20,000 for 100 Node SAM License?
                          serena

                          https://thwack.solarwinds.com/people/martian%20monster  wrote:

                           

                          The rest of my NFR licensing is 100 node so I was keeping it all the same.  At this point I told the sales person never mind I have other more important things I can drop $20K on.

                          In general, node based licensing is more expensive due to the fact that under node based licensing, you aren't capped for component monitors (removing the need to micro manage your count) and the licensing includes scalability engines for SAM and other systems modules (removing the need to quote a lab license for an additional polling engine).

                          Because of that, you would need to modify your node count for SAM to accurately reflect how many nodes you actually want to monitor applications from. That probably will drop you down closer to a SAM25 depending on your needs.

                            • Re: $20,000 for 100 Node SAM License?
                              shuth

                              I understand the idea of moving to node-based licensing but I think you are overestimating how many component monitors people are using. I have plenty of customers who only want to monitor 1-5 components per server. They could monitors hundreds of servers with an ALX license that was half the price of a new SAM node license.

                               

                              We used to sell SAM AL700/1100/1500 licenses for medium businesses - now they baulk at the new node licensing. Even large enterprises are baulking at the price compared to the other modules. Since the licensing model change, we haven't sold a single new SAM license - only renewals of the old AL licenses.

                               

                              Last week we were discussing application monitoring with a client that had about 400 servers they were looking at monitoring. Based on a rough initial estimate they would have been fine on an old AL2500 or even AL1500 license as they mostly had a couple of services or processes to monitor per server and some would just have Asset Inventory turned on. Even if they wanted to add a few more AppInsights than planned, they could have bump up to an ALX license. They didn't require any additional polling engines (at this stage).

                              • AL1500 = AUD$30k
                              • AL2500 = AUD$42k
                              • ALX = AUD$48k

                               

                              • SAM400 = AUD$82k

                               

                              For equivalency, the SAM100 license is AUD$25k compared to the USD$20k you are quoted in the US - so my numbers will be slightly higher than the US pricing.

                               

                              Under the new model, the SAM400 license is ~AUD$82k - this is almost double the previous ALX license. Even if they wanted to buy an additional polling engine, it would only cost them ~$28k, and it would be cheaper to buy ALX+APE than a SAM400. So now the client is looking at reducing their list to "high priority servers" but are now also looking at other tools. If they do find another tool, it is also highly likely they will look at that other tool/vendor for their NPM/NCM/NTA/IPAM equivalent.

                               

                              I think SolarWinds are ballparking ~50 components per server on average when a lot of clients would probably have the average at < 10.

                               

                              Simply put: I believe the new SAM pricing is absurd. There may be a need for the node-based licensing for those heavy component users but it's completely wiped out the low/medium tier of users. Yes, customers would run into the component monitor cap on the lower-mid tiers and they would need to micro manage it - but that was within their price point. The new licensing is now more expensive to start and very expensive at high server counts. BUT they can get APEs when they don't need them!

                               

                              PS. It also costs a node license when you turn on Asset Inventory! You could get this across the board previously just by having SAM installed - potentially a closed loophole now in SolarWinds' eye though.

                              3 of 3 people found this helpful
                                • Re: $20,000 for 100 Node SAM License?
                                  rfroembgen

                                  I wish i could upvote this post a million times. The new pricing of the node based SAM license does not make sense at all. I had a project last year with a customer with about 1500 servers. Easy with element based license... SAM ALX + 1 APE, customer had everything he needed for around 46k € Listprice....

                                   

                                  Now...? Hell no he would purchased a license with a price of 130k €

                                   

                                  I totally agree that a node based license makes sense for some customers, it is even way easier to explain to customers which are new to solarwinds and are used to a "node based" license model.

                                   

                                  The free APEs (which are limited as a SAM polling engine) are not really a benefit.

                                   

                                  Even if we take an example with a SAM1000 (node) license, which is about 100k€... With the element based license we could have 1 SAM ALX + 4 full APEs for the same price... so it would be capable of handling 40.000 to 50.000 elements... Thats alot.

                                  And if the customer starts with SAM1000 and deployed a few of the "free" APEs...

                                  He wants to purchase NPM later, with the node based license i now need to tell the customer if he wants to monitor his 30.000 interfaces he needs 2 "real" APEs (+ the NPM SLX license obviously)...?

                                  That will be a fun discussion.

                                  With the other example, 1 SAM ALX and 4 full APEs... i just can tell them get the NPM SLX and you are good to go!

                                   

                                  Dont get me wrong, i love working with all of the Solarwinds-People and i really like the feature-set of the modules you provide, especially the SAM.

                                  But if customers have to pay a lot more for exactly the same Software... thats rough to explain.

                                   

                                  I would even agree that Standalone SAM installations makes sense with a node based license (but i still think they are too expensive), but as soon as an other license comes into play, the benefit of the free APEs is nearly zero. (If the new license would require one or more APEs)

                                   

                                  Best Regards

                                  Rene

                                  1 of 1 people found this helpful
                                    • Re: $20,000 for 100 Node SAM License?
                                      serena

                                      rfroembgen  wrote:

                                       

                                      I wish i could upvote this post a million times. The new pricing of the node based SAM license does not make sense at all. I had a project last year with a customer with about 1500 servers. Easy with element based license... SAM ALX + 1 APE, customer had everything he needed for around 46k € Listprice....

                                       

                                      Now...? Hell no he would purchased a license with a price of 130k €

                                       

                                      I totally agree that a node based license makes sense for some customers, it is even way easier to explain to customers which are new to solarwinds and are used to a "node based" license model.

                                       

                                      The free APEs (which are limited as a SAM polling engine) are not really a benefit.

                                       

                                      Even if we take an example with a SAM1000 (node) license, which is about 100k€... With the element based license we could have 1 SAM ALX + 4 full APEs for the same price... so it would be capable of handling 40.000 to 50.000 elements... Thats alot.

                                      And if the customer starts with SAM1000 and deployed a few of the "free" APEs...

                                      He wants to purchase NPM later, with the node based license i now need to tell the customer if he wants to monitor his 30.000 interfaces he needs 2 "real" APEs (+ the NPM SLX license obviously)...?

                                      That will be a fun discussion.

                                      With the other example, 1 SAM ALX and 4 full APEs... i just can tell them get the NPM SLX and you are good to go!

                                       

                                      Dont get me wrong, i love working with all of the Solarwinds-People and i really like the feature-set of the modules you provide, especially the SAM.

                                      But if customers have to pay a lot more for exactly the same Software... thats rough to explain.

                                       

                                      I would even agree that Standalone SAM installations makes sense with a node based license (but i still think they are too expensive), but as soon as an other license comes into play, the benefit of the free APEs is nearly zero. (If the new license would require one or more APEs)

                                       

                                      Best Regards

                                      Rene

                                      Regarding this : 'as soon as an other license comes into play, the benefit of the free APEs is nearly zero"

                                       

                                      Customer feedback has shown that we have many customers who own multiple products who are very interested in moving to NAM, which also includes additional polling engines as a large draw. Quoting and continuing to add budget is a pain point, and SAM node base licensing includes this benefit where you do not have to come back with additional budget asks. Just deploy your APE and move on with your life.

                                        • Re: $20,000 for 100 Node SAM License?
                                          rfroembgen

                                          Hi serena,

                                           

                                          thanks for your response. And by the way i really appreaciate your participation (and all of the other Solarwinds ppl and the community in general) in this conversation.

                                           

                                          You are right, together with the NAM it makes sense again and i can see the benefit. But (i can only speak for the DACH-Market) most of my customers start with one or two modules, some with 3, but only a few with 4 or 5.

                                          Im working with Solarwinds-products now for 5 years and i think i could place a NAM two times.

                                           

                                          If we really could get the best of both worlds, then both license models should be available. Atleast for my opinion that would show the customers that Solarwinds wants to be as flexible as possible.

                                           

                                          Customers with high amounts of Servers, but low amounts of elements per server -> go for the element based license.

                                           

                                          Customers with low to average amount of servers, but high counts of elements per server -> go for node based license.

                                           

                                          I think it also would make sense, to alter the element steps of the existing element based licenses. Increase the license steps from old model to maybe 300, 700, 1100, 1500, 2000, 2500, 3500 elments then -> ALX

                                           

                                          Best Regards

                                          Rene

                                      • Re: $20,000 for 100 Node SAM License?
                                        martian monster

                                        Wow that is crazy how much that costs now. 

                                        • Re: $20,000 for 100 Node SAM License?
                                          serena

                                          shuth  wrote:

                                           

                                          I understand the idea of moving to node-based licensing but I think you are overestimating how many component monitors people are using. I have plenty of customers who only want to monitor 1-5 components per server. They could monitors hundreds of servers with an ALX license that was half the price of a new SAM node license.

                                           

                                          We used to sell SAM AL700/1100/1500 licenses for medium businesses - now they baulk at the new node licensing. Even large enterprises are baulking at the price compared to the other modules. Since the licensing model change, we haven't sold a single new SAM license - only renewals of the old AL licenses.

                                           

                                          Last week we were discussing application monitoring with a client that had about 400 servers they were looking at monitoring. Based on a rough initial estimate they would have been fine on an old AL2500 or even AL1500 license as they mostly had a couple of services or processes to monitor per server and some would just have Asset Inventory turned on. Even if they wanted to add a few more AppInsights than planned, they could have bump up to an ALX license. They didn't require any additional polling engines (at this stage).

                                          • AL1500 = AUD$30k
                                          • AL2500 = AUD$42k
                                          • ALX = AUD$48k

                                           

                                          • SAM400 = AUD$82k

                                           

                                          For equivalency, the SAM100 license is AUD$25k compared to the USD$20k you are quoted in the US - so my numbers will be slightly higher than the US pricing.

                                           

                                          Under the new model, the SAM400 license is ~AUD$82k - this is almost double the previous ALX license. Even if they wanted to buy an additional polling engine, it would only cost them ~$28k, and it would be cheaper to buy ALX+APE than a SAM400. So now the client is looking at reducing their list to "high priority servers" but are now also looking at other tools. If they do find another tool, it is also highly likely they will look at that other tool/vendor for their NPM/NCM/NTA/IPAM equivalent.

                                           

                                          I think SolarWinds are ballparking ~50 components per server on average when a lot of clients would probably have the average at < 10.

                                           

                                          Simply put: I believe the new SAM pricing is absurd. There may be a need for the node-based licensing for those heavy component users but it's completely wiped out the low/medium tier of users. Yes, customers would run into the component monitor cap on the lower-mid tiers and they would need to micro manage it - but that was within their price point. The new licensing is now more expensive to start and very expensive at high server counts. BUT they can get APEs when they don't need them!

                                           

                                          PS. It also costs a node license when you turn on Asset Inventory! You could get this across the board previously just by having SAM installed - potentially a closed loophole now in SolarWinds' eye though.

                                          Steve, 

                                          Definitely understand the need for more basic monitoring needs. However, consider this, NPM comes with basic monitoring as well, so the best value for customers come when they buy NPM + SAM. They get the benefit of additive node count, and visibility into network + server + application. With NPM & SAM, the all around package exists for basic server monitoring needs + more advanced. For those customers buying AL1500 etc, can you let me know how many of those were standalone SAM only quotes?

                                            • Re: $20,000 for 100 Node SAM License?
                                              shuth

                                              Hi serena. Yes, the NPM+SAM bundle can work if you only want basic server monitoring (up/down, CPU/memory, disk) for a majority of your servers. However, that model goes out the window if you want Asset Inventory or want to monitor if a key service (1 component) is running on all your servers. In my mentioned example of 400 servers at $82k, they aren't going to pay $2000 per server to monitor a couple of services and/or get Asset Inventory. Yes, on the few servers they might be monitoring AppInsight for SQL (maybe multiple instances on one server), and other 10-15+ monitors on other servers that may blow out the component monitor count but that would be a small handful.

                                               

                                              It's rare for me to see a SAM only quote. Most are for existing NPM installs, or they're getting a range of modules (either network modules like NPM/NCM, or server modules like VMAN/WPM/DPA). Usually the standalone module quotes are for NPM.

                                                • Re: $20,000 for 100 Node SAM License?
                                                  aLTeReGo

                                                  shuth  wrote:

                                                   

                                                  Hi serena . Yes, the NPM+SAM bundle can work if you only want basic server monitoring (up/down, CPU/memory, disk) for a majority of your servers. However, that model goes out the window if you want Asset Inventory or want to monitor if a key service (1 component) is running on all your servers. In my mentioned example of 400 servers at $82k, they aren't going to pay $2000 per server to monitor a couple of services and/or get Asset Inventory. Yes, on the few servers they might be monitoring AppInsight for SQL (maybe multiple instances on one server), and other 10-15+ monitors on other servers that may blow out the component monitor count but that would be a small handful.

                                                  shuth, please double check my math here, but I beleive $82,000 / 400 = $205.00 per-node, not $2000. That's a fairly signifigant difference

                                                    • Re: $20,000 for 100 Node SAM License?
                                                      shuth

                                                      Yep, that's my bad on the math. Not sure how I missed that one!    That does make it sound more reasonable although the previous licensing model was cheaper still (especially as the AL licenses also provided basic node monitoring for hundreds of servers).

                                                       

                                                      I noted in another post that the new pricing seems OK for clients with small number of servers that need a lot of monitoring, but falls on the expensive side for clients with a large number of servers wanting basic component monitoring (not just CPU/memory/volume) per my example in my first post.

                                                      1 of 1 people found this helpful
                                              • Re: $20,000 for 100 Node SAM License?
                                                martian monster

                                                serena So When I balked at the price shouldn't my sales person gave me different options? The sales person also did not mention ANYTHING about the APE included with this which others are eluding too. All of the other vendors I deal with are usually really good with working with customers on figuring out the best price point for that they want.  Also serena when Solarwinds unveiled the new pricing model NO one would actually take any time out to explain it.  I am beginning to believe when the pricing came out and my sales person had no idea he was just playing dumb.  If I really need these SAM license for the lab I will have to have a look at what we currently have for Solarwinds software and see if we really need all of the modules we have and will cancel any ones that we are really not utilizing to their full potential.  In addition  if maybe Solarwinds took the time to explain the licensing at onset we might not be having this conversation.  It also looks like I am not the only one to balk at this pricing.   Heck my renewal for my unlimited PROD SAM licensing was $6700 last year that is what you wanted for a renewal for the 100 node licenses.. 

                                                  • Re: $20,000 for 100 Node SAM License?
                                                    serena

                                                    https://thwack.solarwinds.com/people/martian%20monster  wrote:

                                                     

                                                    serena  So When I balked at the price shouldn't my sales person gave me different options? The sales person also did not mention ANYTHING about the APE included with this which others are eluding too. All of the other vendors I deal with are usually really good with working with customers on figuring out the best price point for that they want.  Also serena  when Solarwinds unveiled the new pricing model NO one would actually take any time out to explain it.  I am beginning to believe when the pricing came out and my sales person had no idea he was just playing dumb.  If I really need these SAM license for the lab I will have to have a look at what we currently have for Solarwinds software and see if we really need all of the modules we have and will cancel any ones that we are really not utilizing to their full potential.  In addition  if maybe Solarwinds took the time to explain the licensing at onset we might not be having this conversation.  It also looks like I am not the only one to balk at this pricing.   Heck my renewal for my unlimited PROD SAM licensing was $6700 last year that is what you wanted for a renewal for the 100 node licenses.. 

                                                    If you'd like to direct message me your sales person's name I'm happy to remind them of the included apes. The product team has been actively providing comprehensive licensing information to ensure that our sales team is able to answer your questions and continue to help you find the right price point with us.

                                        • Re: $20,000 for 100 Node SAM License?
                                          Vinay BY

                                          Hi serena - Why can't we have both models for SAM licenses? (Where customer goes with the licensing model that is best for their need)

                                          Is this something that SolarWinds would consider ?

                                          Component based licensing for SAM which existed earlier and the new licensing model which is Node based licensing for SAM ?

                                          1 of 1 people found this helpful
                                            • Re: $20,000 for 100 Node SAM License?
                                              serena

                                              vinay.by  wrote:

                                               

                                              Hi serena  - Why can't we have both models for SAM licenses? (Where customer goes with the licensing model that is best for their need)

                                              Is this something that SolarWinds would consider ?

                                              Component based licensing for SAM which existed earlier and the new licensing model which is Node based licensing for SAM ?

                                              Hi Vinay,

                                              At this time SolarWinds is ensuring that node based licensing is streamlined and working for our customers. This conversation in this thread is important because it closes the feedback loop for us. To help us determine if component based licensing is something that needs to coexist, I'd love to hear more from you about your monitored environment that would make you want to skip out on unlimited scale, and not having to micro manage your component count.

                                              1 of 1 people found this helpful
                                                • Re: $20,000 for 100 Node SAM License?
                                                  Vinay BY

                                                  Hi serena,

                                                   

                                                  Thanks for reaching out to me, it isn't about one environment, last year i was associated with 5 SolarWinds deals and 4/5 deals had SAM in it.

                                                  1. Costing (licensing/maintenance renewal) for SAM is huge with the new node based licensing.

                                                  2. There are few clients who have multiple APE's which is running with SAM ALX component based (unlimited), this actually eases the way SAM licensing  was. I do agree you are giving SAM APE's for free with SAM node based licenses but I have never worked on a deal which only has SAM in my entire tenure? Adding just SAM APE's to me is like adding additional cost to the deal and I dont see much benefit out of it as it works in a silo mode.

                                                  3. What after SAM4000 when it comes to node based licenses? I never use to care if client environment had 20K servers as I could always use a SAM ALX but since the introduction of node based I will always have to keep a count of licenses being used and say suppose i dont have the estimates of the infra growth for the next 5 years in a deal, I wont be able to provide a feasible SAM licensing model in that case.

                                                   

                                                  This is what I can think of and if you disagree with me, please ignore my post. Thank you.

                                                    • Re: $20,000 for 100 Node SAM License?
                                                      serena

                                                      vinay.by  wrote:

                                                       

                                                      Hi serena,

                                                       

                                                      Thanks for reaching out to me, it isn't about one environment, last year i was associated with 5 SolarWinds deals and 4/5 deals had SAM in it.

                                                      1. Costing (licensing/maintenance renewal) for SAM is huge with the new node based licensing.

                                                      2. There are few clients who have multiple APE's which is running with SAM ALX component based (unlimited), this actually eases the way SAM licensing  was. I do agree you are giving SAM APE's for free with SAM node based licenses but I have never worked on a deal which only has SAM in my entire tenure? Adding just SAM APE's to me is like adding additional cost to the deal and I dont see much benefit out of it as it works in a silo mode.

                                                      3. What after SAM4000 when it comes to node based licenses? I never use to care if client environment had 20K servers as I could always use a SAM ALX but since the introduction of node based I will always have to keep a count of licenses being used and say suppose i dont have the estimates of the infra growth for the next 5 years in a deal, I wont be able to provide a feasible SAM licensing model in that case.

                                                       

                                                      This is what I can think of and if you disagree with me, please ignore my post. Thank you.

                                                      SAM included APEs are applicable to not just SAM, but they're also useful for VMAN, SRM, LA, and SCM.

                                                      Scale is now included for the applicable systems portfolio, so I would not think of included APEs as a benefit "just for standalone SAM"

                                                      There are available tiers after SAM4000, and they scale appropriately to a "the more you buy, the better the deal"

                                                        • Re: $20,000 for 100 Node SAM License?
                                                          Vinay BY

                                                          Agreed, but i see a lot of customers who use the best of both worlds, what i meant was customers whom i see generally have NPM,NCM,NTA,SAM and VMAN.

                                                          But it would be great if SolarWinds can retain both (component based and node based) licensing models, I as well understand that there could be a road-map as to why SolarWinds is proposing node based licensing for SAM (I am not sure if my request is feasible, but if at all it is then please think about it).

                                                            • Re: $20,000 for 100 Node SAM License?
                                                              serena

                                                              vinay.by  wrote:

                                                               

                                                              Agreed, but i see a lot of customers who use the best of both worlds, what i meant was customers whom i see generally have NPM,NCM,NTA,SAM and VMAN.

                                                              But it would be great if SolarWinds can retain both (component based and node based) licensing models, I as well understand that there could be a road-map as to why SolarWinds is proposing node based licensing for SAM (I am not sure if my request is feasible, but if at all it is then please think about it).

                                                              We are monitoring the feedback and are taking that proposal into consideration. Definitely thinking about it!

                                                        • Re: $20,000 for 100 Node SAM License?
                                                          ralfs

                                                          Hi serena,

                                                           

                                                          when I look to our environment for us is the ALX license the best way especially when I see that it can only be converted to a 300 node license directly. we have around 1200 nodes and nearly 20k of components in one of our 3 data centers. Explaining a 1250 node license to the CTO would something I don't want to do.

                                                           

                                                          The other question is the cloud strategy when moving to node based every application is one node (ping only and rest API) with normally only a little amount of components (one or two I think) except things like exchange online etz. . So I need a lot of nodes to be licensed for only a few components which makes the model much more unattractive.

                                                           

                                                          I would say: having both models and let the customer decide would be the best.

                                                           

                                                          Kind Regards,

                                                          Ralf

                                                            • Re: $20,000 for 100 Node SAM License?
                                                              serena

                                                              ralfs  wrote:

                                                               

                                                              Hi serena,

                                                               

                                                              when I look to our environment for us is the ALX license the best way especially when I see that it can only be converted to a 300 node license directly. we have around 1200 nodes and nearly 20k of components in one of our 3 data centers. Explaining a 1250 node license to the CTO would something I don't want to do.

                                                               

                                                              The other question is the cloud strategy when moving to node based every application is one node (ping only and rest API) with normally only a little amount of components (one or two I think) except things like exchange online etz. . So I need a lot of nodes to be licensed for only a few components which makes the model much more unattractive.

                                                               

                                                              I would say: having both models and let the customer decide would be the best.

                                                               

                                                              Kind Regards,

                                                              Ralf

                                                              Hey Ralf,

                                                              Great scenario to discuss. Caveat, numbers listed here are ballpark ranges and price points may vary depending on your situation.

                                                              In the cloud strategy - every application is not a node. There are many ways to configure SAM for budget friendly visibility that scales with your cloud environment.

                                                               

                                                              Let's take for example this - you have 100 applications surfaced to Orion and there's one single endpoint that we use to communicate against those applications. That's one external node, for which you gain basic visibility into 100 applications, are they up, down and is the API endpoint responding in expected time? 

                                                              If 10 of those application are production mission critical applications and they're hosted on Azure instances,  you may want deeper visibility into the application. For instance, its relationship to the services and processes on the Azure instance and you want to poll that Azure instance with WMI polling for access to certificates, associated volumes and other deeper level items, then you'll want to manage that Azure instance as a node. That would be 10 additional nodes as an example.

                                                               

                                                              In that case you're good with a SAM25. What's more is you have flexibility to monitor whatever you like on the node with hundreds or more script monitors or more, and it doesn't cost you any more or less for those 10 nodes. That's give or take ~ $6k.

                                                              For those 10 nodes that you care about you have deeper insight with no compromise on how far you want to go on that node.

                                                               

                                                              For cloud I expect that usage and spin-up/ spin-down  of applications is even more dynamic due to usage of auto scaling, containers, functions etc, whereas your node count of what you consider critical instances is relatively predictable. You can build a budget around that. And as your expansion of applications and usage of components continues to ramp on ever more powerful infrastructure, you'll need scale, which just means you just install another APE - and you don't have to bother with an additional budget request.

                                                               

                                                              Conversely for those 100 applications, if you are restricting yourself to using AppInsights ~50 components or some common home grown OOTB templates ~20, then you're feasibly looking at a SAM AL2500 or SAM ALX.

                                                              You've now landed on immediately saying well let's just go for the ALX for flexibility because it's hard to predict and budget for component count usage. You've now spent give or take  ~$30k immediately. Then, the hidden cost is as you roll out your application monitoring, you now have to pick and choose - do I care more about ping or do I care more about using this script monitor? Should I use the AppInsight or build my own version of it to remove components that I don't care about. Because even though you have the ALX, you still have to consider component scale. The minute you hit that (current guidelines, again your results may vary) 10k component per polling engine recommendation, you're going to ask do I want to spend additional money and go through the budget request for an additional polling engine? Also, think of the amount of time you're now using to weigh components and assign and manage them.

                                                               

                                                              I want customers to feel good about using our custom built AppInsights, for instance I want them to get visibility into SQL and visibility into IIS just on their Orion server alone, without having to worry about micromanaging the component count. The process should be enabling customers to get a request for a new server set up -> you add it to be monitored with a full default stack of templates, component monitors and API pollers as your golden standard of monitoring. If your additional polling engine is fully utilized? Just deploy a new one with no compromises in the level of visibility of what you get per node.

                                                               

                                                              As many customers have mentioned here it's more common that you see NPM and SAM packaged together, which is absolutely the best way to get visibility and flexibility for your monitoring needs. Don't discount that NPM licenses also account for nodes, and allow you to ping those nodes as well as utilize Netpath and UnDPs for a different perspective on applications and the network devices. Together with NPM & SAM, you get basic monitoring value for a large spread of nodes, but with SAM node based licenses, there's no need to compromise on the components applied per node, for deeper visibility across the board.

                                                        • Re: $20,000 for 100 Node SAM License?
                                                          bobmarley

                                                          Most larger companies follow this methodology Development -> Lab Testing, Integration -> Lab Testing -> Rollout to Production. Development is where you 'play', integration, mimics production, and then production.

                                                          Lab licenses are essential for this process to work.

                                                            • Re: $20,000 for 100 Node SAM License?
                                                              serena

                                                              bobmarley  wrote:

                                                               

                                                              Most larger companies follow this methodology Development -> Lab Testing, Integration -> Lab Testing -> Rollout to Production. Development is where you 'play', integration, mimics production, and then production.

                                                              Lab licenses are essential for this process to work.

                                                              You are absolutely correct, and if you talk to SolarWinds sales, they do have the ability to offer pricing suitable for lab licenses.

                                                                • Re: $20,000 for 100 Node SAM License?
                                                                  frak

                                                                  When did this come to past?  Previously when I asked about those I was told they didn't exist.

                                                                    • Re: $20,000 for 100 Node SAM License?
                                                                      serena

                                                                      frak  wrote:

                                                                       

                                                                      When did this come to past?  Previously when I asked about those I was told they didn't exist.

                                                                      They are not 'lab' licenses in the exact way that is requested in the existing feature request that's in my feature forum because technically a lab license would have restrictions. But you can discuss the pricing aspect with your sales rep for lab environments.

                                                                    • Re: $20,000 for 100 Node SAM License?
                                                                      rfackrell

                                                                      serena
                                                                      What has always gotten me about this however is that whatever discount is offered for a lab licence is ONLY on the INITIAL Purchase price.
                                                                      I still have to plan thousands of $$$ for added maintenance. And with a large(er) Deployment: 3 Primary, 9 APEs 3 AWS, With: NPM SLX, SAM SLX, NCM SLX, NTA SLX, VMAN192, SRM1000, around 100 different DPA Licences, we are pushing 200+ In just Yearly Maintenance. How am I suppose to justify added another 20k Yearly plus the 25K initial for Dev Licencing?

                                                                      Offer a good discount on my yearly Maintenance for Dev Licences and I just might be able to get funding. Or Even include the smallest version of each module licence with each one.

                                                                       

                                                                      To bobmarley's point, in order for me to even just keep up with current releases, I have a mandate to: Beta test in Dev Environment -> RC Test in QA -> GA test in QA -> Push to Production.

                                                                      I can sometimes get away with doing this very quickly together on evaluation licences when we are looking at version updates, but a huge gap is mid to long term effects of new updates/products, and sometimes even evaluation the update process. Spinning up a new instance and using a evaluation licence doesn't test a in-place update.

                                                                      All really to my point of: There NEEDS to be a licencing structure for Dev Only Licences. They need to be cheap to get and easy to justify keeping; if not just included in the cost.



                                                                        • Re: $20,000 for 100 Node SAM License?
                                                                          serena

                                                                          rfackrell  wrote:

                                                                           

                                                                          serena
                                                                          What has always gotten me about this however is that whatever discount is offered for a lab licence is ONLY on the INITIAL Purchase price.
                                                                          I still have to plan thousands of $$$ for added maintenance. And with a large(er) Deployment: 3 Primary, 9 APEs 3 AWS, With: NPM SLX, SAM SLX, NCM SLX, NTA SLX, VMAN192, SRM1000, around 100 different DPA Licences, we are pushing 200+ In just Yearly Maintenance. How am I suppose to justify added another 20k Yearly plus the 25K initial for Dev Licencing?

                                                                          Offer a good discount on my yearly Maintenance for Dev Licences and I just might be able to get funding. Or Even include the smallest version of each module licence with each one.

                                                                           

                                                                          To bobmarley 's point, in order for me to even just keep up with current releases, I have a mandate to: Beta test in Dev Environment -> RC Test in QA -> GA test in QA -> Push to Production.

                                                                          I can sometimes get away with doing this very quickly together on evaluation licences when we are looking at version updates, but a huge gap is mid to long term effects of new updates/products, and sometimes even evaluation the update process. Spinning up a new instance and using a evaluation licence doesn't test a in-place update.

                                                                          All really to my point of: There NEEDS to be a licencing structure for Dev Only Licences. They need to be cheap to get and easy to justify keeping; if not just included in the cost.



                                                                          Your concerns on the structure for current lab licensing are absolutely valid. Have you up voted this request out of curiosity? Test/Development Licenses 

                                                                    • Re: $20,000 for 100 Node SAM License?
                                                                      jrouviere

                                                                      Thank you for posting this, I guess we got lucky having our ALX in place already. We might be getting a deal, but we spend much less on that license than we would for 100 nodes and we have at least 800 or so that we would need to monitor.

                                                                        • Re: $20,000 for 100 Node SAM License?
                                                                          serena

                                                                          jrouviere  wrote:

                                                                           

                                                                          Thank you for posting this, I guess we got lucky having our ALX in place already. We might be getting a deal, but we spend much less on that license than we would for 100 nodes and we have at least 800 or so that we would need to monitor.

                                                                          The ALX is a great license for its purpose, and many customers are hanging on to those. I've seen customers also invest in a separate SAM node based license to live side by with their ALX so they can essentially reap the benefits of both licensing models.

                                                                            • Re: $20,000 for 100 Node SAM License?
                                                                              stevenstadel

                                                                              How does having a SAM node based license and an ALX license work side by side? If we have an ALX license and apply a SAM100 license can we use the unlimited APEs for all the nodes or just the 100 that fall with the SAM100 license? Do we need to assign a specific node to the SAM100 license?

                                                                                • Re: $20,000 for 100 Node SAM License?
                                                                                  serena

                                                                                  stevenstadel  wrote:

                                                                                   

                                                                                  How does having a SAM node based license and an ALX license work side by side? If we have an ALX license and apply a SAM100 license can we use the unlimited APEs for all the nodes or just the 100 that fall with the SAM100 license? Do we need to assign a specific node to the SAM100 license?

                                                                                  They would be applied to separate instances of SAM. Your installation is either licensed by node or by component but it cannot be both.

                                                                                  I've seen some customer choose to utilize node based licensing for their installation that is monitoring production critical servers and component for their instance that is handling less production critical servers for more widespread coverage that is less component heavy.

                                                                                  2 of 2 people found this helpful
                                                                            • Re: $20,000 for 100 Node SAM License?
                                                                              hpstech

                                                                              Many threads on this topic. I think there is a feature request too.

                                                                               

                                                                              I don't see an easy way for SolarWinds to "trust" customers with cheaper Lab licenses, so the answer is always, buy a full license.

                                                                              • Re: $20,000 for 100 Node SAM License?
                                                                                bobmarley

                                                                                Wait until the last day of the quarter and offer $4,999 and be ready to pay right then with a credit card. An old customer trick.

                                                                                • Re: $20,000 for 100 Node SAM License?
                                                                                  Radioteacher

                                                                                  I have been saying for years that SAM licensing is a mess.  This is a big step in the wrong direction.  

                                                                                  For years I have said that MS SCOM is free with System Center licensees.  It is like they heard the customer and said....nope we are going to charge you even more money for what others give away.


                                                                                  Paul

                                                                                    • Re: $20,000 for 100 Node SAM License?
                                                                                      shuth

                                                                                      This is what turns me off Log Analyzer for Orion.

                                                                                      - Tagging was part of legacy NPM trap viewer but under the new LA "feature" it has been removed from NPM and you now need to buy Log Analyzer

                                                                                      - If you go over the license count for LA, you don't just lose all the additional features that LA provides but you also lose all the basic features such as even receiving and storing the syslog/trap message. The system will discard the messages automatically if it is an unlicensed source. This makes the pricing like SAM - very expensive if you have a lot of devices that require little monitoring. If you have a network of hundreds of networks devices that might only send a few syslog/trap messages when there are problems, LA is an expensive module for what was once free.

                                                                                       

                                                                                      Now seeing the same with SAM, the new licensing works well for a low number of servers that require a lot of component monitoring but I'm not sure the numbers work out in the opposite scenario.

                                                                                        • Re: $20,000 for 100 Node SAM License?
                                                                                          jrouviere

                                                                                          I was thinking about this, too.

                                                                                           

                                                                                          I have 960 nodes with at least one component assigned.

                                                                                           

                                                                                          Of those, 684 have 10 or less components.

                                                                                           

                                                                                          494 have 1 component.

                                                                                           

                                                                                          My top 34 servers have 70 or more components, total of 4248 components.

                                                                                           

                                                                                          Maybe for those 34 servers I'm making out like a bandit, but for the bottom 500? Where most of my monitoring takes place? What's the benefit.

                                                                                           

                                                                                          I'm willing to entertain that I don't have all of the information due to not having reviewed the license model directly, but if every single node that has a component assigned is a license, that's a lot of licensed nodes for that model.

                                                                                           

                                                                                          For 494 servers do I make the choice to spend ~$200 to monitor them for one component or forgo that monitoring? Or is there another piece I'm missing?

                                                                                          • Re: $20,000 for 100 Node SAM License?
                                                                                            jrouviere

                                                                                            Also think that LA is crazy high for what you get, but depending on your cases, Kiwi is ~$500 and we push everything there first and only forward what's alert-able to Orion for alerting/reporting.

                                                                                            • Re: $20,000 for 100 Node SAM License?
                                                                                              jvb

                                                                                              Thanks for the additional feedback on logs Steven... Totally understand that for those coming from the legacy side of things it is a bit frustrating that tagging moved into the paid product. In the long run we wanted to be able to extend and add functionality to the feature set that was in the legacy product. To do that we had to make some tough calls on what stayed put in the basic log viewer and what belonged in the more advanced / value adding / paid bucket. On the second point of the all or nothing approach of the LA license, we are always open to feedback on that and I may ping you offline for some additional detail.

                                                                                              1 of 1 people found this helpful
                                                                                          • Re: $20,000 for 100 Node SAM License?
                                                                                            Seashore

                                                                                            I can only agree. I have been working with orion since 2003 and been a partner and reseller for almost that long.

                                                                                            The new node-based licenses for SAM just don't make sense. Too expensive.

                                                                                             

                                                                                            Free polling engines, great. But if you have other modules like NPM, then you must pay for the APE's anyway. That way paying for them twice.

                                                                                             

                                                                                            Component base licenses might be harder for new customers to count and estimate but it's much more fare.

                                                                                              • Re: $20,000 for 100 Node SAM License?
                                                                                                serena

                                                                                                Seashore  wrote:

                                                                                                 

                                                                                                I can only agree. I have been working with orion since 2003 and been a partner and reseller for almost that long.

                                                                                                The new node-based licenses for SAM just don't make sense. Too expensive.

                                                                                                 

                                                                                                Free polling engines, great. But if you have other modules like NPM, then you must pay for the APE's anyway. That way paying for them twice.

                                                                                                 

                                                                                                Component base licenses might be harder for new customers to count and estimate but it's much more fare.

                                                                                                'you must pay for APEs anyway'

                                                                                                 

                                                                                                The usage of APEs for network device monitoring differs per environment so I would argue that you can't actually make that blanket statement. There are many customers who have come forward with scenarios that show that their application and systems monitoring outstrip the number of network devices, so for them, the NPM APEs are negated as a cost by moving to SAM node based licensing.

                                                                                                 

                                                                                                There's not a 'one size fits all' story here. There are some customers for whom component based licenses is a perfect fit and is very fair for their monitoring needs. That's great, we are happy to see that, and we encourage those customers to hang on to their component licenses. But conversely there are quite a few customers who have migrated from component based licenses, to go to node because their monitoring needs fit that model quite well. It's just a matter of taking a hard look at how your environment is set up, taking a step back and evaluating the pros and cons.

                                                                                              • Re: $20,000 for 100 Node SAM License?
                                                                                                silverbacksays

                                                                                                Slightly off-topc, but relevant:

                                                                                                 

                                                                                                I'd love to be part of a conversation about the future of licensing for the Orion platform.

                                                                                                 

                                                                                                We MVP's have been around the block with customers of all sizes, with pockets both deep and shallow. It would only make sense for SWI to include us in any licensing working group, as we're the un-badged boots on the ground, who can deliver unfiltered feedback, direct from the front lines. We also have access to decision makers at the aforementioned customers, therefore able to put some of the theoretical changes to them, unofficially, thereby giving SWI the potential impact of change, before it's implemented.

                                                                                                 

                                                                                                The fallout we're seeing from the move to node-based licensing for SAM just reinforces our value to this conversation. The potential to mitigate any potential negative impact alone, by having us in the loop and prepared to field questions from our customers stemming from any change, would be invaluable.

                                                                                                 

                                                                                                We're a combination of product evangelist, social media influences, and PR people, all in one, so use us

                                                                                                4 of 4 people found this helpful
                                                                                                  • Re: $20,000 for 100 Node SAM License?
                                                                                                    martian monster

                                                                                                    Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.  I cannot like that statement enough silverbacksays

                                                                                                      • Re: $20,000 for 100 Node SAM License?
                                                                                                        serena

                                                                                                        https://thwack.solarwinds.com/people/martian%20monster  wrote:

                                                                                                         

                                                                                                        Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.  I cannot like that statement enough silverbacksays

                                                                                                        Dave, you as well have direct access and influence already.

                                                                                                          • Re: $20,000 for 100 Node SAM License?
                                                                                                            frak

                                                                                                            Yes there was a discussion requested by the MVPs and SW when we heard about the licencing change, and that did happen  (I had to miss it due to scheduling).  I think it fair to say we didn't feel like our concerns were taken on-board. 

                                                                                                             

                                                                                                            I don't have the experience of other MVPs with clients in SW space, as I work at an end user not dealer.  Personally I am relieved that we have most our licences already - I can't confidently say I would get approval under thew new regime ('but scom is free' is a horrible phrase but one I did have to deal with).  We have Inventory turned on for very device - a once day poll creates little load on our pollers and gives us great benefit in managing our equipment.  In the past when we were sailing close to the wind for our (as then non SLX) SAM licence - and working through templates and selectively turning off less important components was a valid way of staying monitored.  Running out of licences and hitting the 'random nodes unmonitored' in a more constrained node based licence would leave us no choice but to leave devices off entirely while the we pushed through red tape for purchasing (which in government can take a LONG time).

                                                                                                              • Re: $20,000 for 100 Node SAM License?
                                                                                                                serena

                                                                                                                frak  wrote:

                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                Yes there was a discussion requested by the MVPs and SW when we heard about the licencing change, and that did happen  (I had to miss it due to scheduling).  I think it fair to say we didn't feel like our concerns were taken on-board. 

                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                I don't have the experience of other MVPs with clients in SW space, as I work at an end user not dealer.  Personally I am relieved that we have most our licences already - I can't confidently say I would get approval under thew new regime ('but scom is free' is a horrible phrase but one I did have to deal with).  We have Inventory turned on for very device - a once day poll creates little load on our pollers and gives us great benefit in managing our equipment.  In the past when we were sailing close to the wind for our (as then non SLX) SAM licence - and working through templates and selectively turning off less important components was a valid way of staying monitored.  Running out of licences and hitting the 'random nodes unmonitored' in a more constrained node based licence would leave us no choice but to leave devices off entirely while the we pushed through red tape for purchasing (which in government can take a LONG time).

                                                                                                                Matt,

                                                                                                                I'm sorry that you felt like your concerns weren't taken into account. While that may feel that way because there are no immediate external changes, please know that licensing changes for our product line are treated with top priority and are things that cannot be adjusted overnight without careful thought. There's a mountain of review and data analysis that occurs on our side and sadly this just takes time.

                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                Please keep using the THWACK MVP feedback channels provided, because while there aren't going to be immediate changes, we have certainly brought all attention to bear on those channels and what the MVPs are communicating to us.

                                                                                                          • Re: $20,000 for 100 Node SAM License?
                                                                                                            serena

                                                                                                            silverbacksays  wrote:

                                                                                                             

                                                                                                            Slightly off-topc, but relevant:

                                                                                                             

                                                                                                            I'd love to be part of a conversation about the future of licensing for the Orion platform.

                                                                                                             

                                                                                                            We MVP's have been around the block with customers of all sizes, with pockets both deep and shallow. It would only make sense for SWI to include us in any licensing working group, as we're the un-badged boots on the ground, who can deliver unfiltered feedback, direct from the front lines. We also have access to decision makers at the aforementioned customers, therefore able to put some of the theoretical changes to them, unofficially, thereby giving SWI the potential impact of change, before it's implemented.

                                                                                                             

                                                                                                            The fallout we're seeing from the move to node-based licensing for SAM just reinforces our value to this conversation. The potential to mitigate any potential negative impact alone, by having us in the loop and prepared to field questions from our customers stemming from any change, would be invaluable.

                                                                                                             

                                                                                                            We're a combination of product evangelist, social media influences, and PR people, all in one, so use us

                                                                                                            Jez,

                                                                                                            As a THWACK MVP you already have direct access to feedback channels that allow you this influence today. A round table around this subject was conducted early on. Your value is of immense importance and from the beginning has been of incredible value to our internal discussions. Please do not believe that your voice is not heard, because it most certainly is.

                                                                                                             

                                                                                                            I would caution those on this thread who believe that there is only 'fallout from the  move to node-based licensing' as the only correct narrative. That is an incorrect assumption, as the happy customers who have successfully joined the SolarWinds family using node based licensing or migrated to node based licensing, are rather busy enjoying the benefits, and have used other feedback mechanisms that are available through our sales and support teams to communicate their feedback. Even if it at times does not seem visible in this specific thread, does not mean that everyone hates node based licensing.

                                                                                                            1 of 1 people found this helpful
                                                                                                              • Re: $20,000 for 100 Node SAM License?
                                                                                                                silverbacksays

                                                                                                                Hey serena

                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                I know I can reach out and have a chat with the relevant people about my views, but sometimes boucing a group of ideas around a brain trust helps, as it did when we had our first MVP calls on this I only meant to highlight that having another such discussion may help once more, as we MVPeeps have had the chance to gather even more feedback now, is all. We're all still buddies!

                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                Ultimately, the licensing model isn't all bad, at all. It's just different, and marks a new potential direction which could impact on the Fancy Dans who do a lot with less


                                                                                                                SAM is still one of the best value for money Orion modules out there, in terms of functionality. I'll be selling it, installing it, and supporting it, regardless of whether it's on the ALx or SAMx licenses

                                                                                                                  • Re: $20,000 for 100 Node SAM License?
                                                                                                                    serena

                                                                                                                    silverbacksays  wrote:

                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                    Hey serena 

                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                    I know I can reach out and have a chat with the relevant people about my views, but sometimes boucing a group of ideas around a brain trust helps, as it did when we had our first MVP calls on this I only meant to highlight that having another such discussion may help once more, as we MVPeeps have had the chance to gather even more feedback now, is all. We're all still buddies!

                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                    Ultimately, the licensing model isn't all bad, at all. It's just different, and marks a new potential direction which could impact on the Fancy Dans who do a lot with less


                                                                                                                    SAM is still one of the best value for money Orion modules out there, in terms of functionality. I'll be selling it, installing it, and supporting it, regardless of whether it's on the ALx or SAMx licenses

                                                                                                                    I'm glad you liked the format of the first MVP roundtable. When reviewing the outcome of that meeting, there were some limitations with that format. For instance, I wasn't able to easily include some of our remote folks (like shuth and frak) and that was a big gap because each of the MVPs are classified as MVPs for a reason. Every individual's feedback is something I wanted to bring equal opportunity to collect. This go around we have changed the format around a bit with DanielleH helping us out with her usual level of expertise. You should have been notified on the additional feedback channel provided for this, so I look forward to seeing more of your excellent feedback there.

                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                    Thank you for continuing to be an ambassador of SAM, and I totally agree that the licensing model is *diffferent.*  I'm totally stealing your verbiage 'Fancy Dans' by the way in my internal discussions.  

                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                    Have a great holiday Jez!

                                                                                                                    #buddies4ever

                                                                                                                      • Re: $20,000 for 100 Node SAM License?
                                                                                                                        frak

                                                                                                                        I haven't see anything about an additional feedback channel.  I was a bit offline due to illness recently though.

                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                        With enough notice I am fine to get up early or late for conferences.  I used to have a weekly call with a mastermind group that was 5am.  anything up to 1am I can stay up late for, or after 5am I can get up early for no probs (not sure hos shuth feels about times though) I just need enough notice.

                                                                                                                • Re: $20,000 for 100 Node SAM License?
                                                                                                                  rschroeder

                                                                                                                  If it helps you feel less bad martian monster , I added up our SQL and Oracle instances and databases and looked up the list price for covering them all with SAM and DPA.  List price was over $1M.

                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                  Someone from SW was quick to point out that quantity discounts were available, and that it was unlikely we'd be asked to pay $1M for SAM and DPA.

                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                  I had to grin.  Knowing our SA's and DBA's and our organization's budget, it's unlikely they'd be interested in covering all our instances/databases for more than $2K total.  Now understand I'M comPLETELY on board for having DPA and SAM.  But silo's and responsibilities and tools are quite separate between my team and the others. 

                                                                                                                  • Re: $20,000 for 100 Node SAM License?
                                                                                                                    Radioteacher

                                                                                                                    SAM should be a base feature of Orion and not a license.

                                                                                                                    • Re: $20,000 for 100 Node SAM License?
                                                                                                                      justin.alcorta

                                                                                                                      Depending on what you need you might look at IPMonitor.  It does some really good monitoring of devices and applications.  You don't get into the weeds of the applications but if you need to know basic stuff that is where I would look. 

                                                                                                                        • Re: $20,000 for 100 Node SAM License?
                                                                                                                          serena

                                                                                                                          justin.alcorta  wrote:

                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                          Depending on what you need you might look at IPMonitor.  It does some really good monitoring of devices and applications.  You don't get into the weeds of the applications but if you need to know basic stuff that is where I would look. 

                                                                                                                          IP monitor is a great product, and you're absolutely right there are definitely customers who need more basic monitoring that utilize IP monitoring for a budget friendly option.

                                                                                                                        • Re: $20,000 for 100 Node SAM License?
                                                                                                                          frak

                                                                                                                          I like the F5 'dev' model.   Keep in mind they are an expensive kit.

                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                          $150 for a 'dev' vm licence.   You can in theory turn on all features, but resource limited (CPU or memory I forget which) so you cannot turn everything on at once.  Throughput is also limited.

                                                                                                                          • Re: $20,000 for 100 Node SAM License?
                                                                                                                            pratikmehta003

                                                                                                                            serena

                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                            Even we are facing lot heat due to the changes on SAM licensing... Below are some points from my end:

                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                            Use case 1: When we compare the element based with node based, the launch price itself has so much gap. Ex: ALX can give you free limit of 12k elements but its current equivalent is SAM300 if m not wrong so this allows only 300 devices to be monitored!

                                                                                                                            If I take a count of 1000 device with 10 monitor probes then I can still monitor 10k devices. So see the gap here 300 devices: 10k devices

                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                            Use case 2:  SAM Node based licensing price doesn’t work for small to medium environments. When the same cost is compared with other competitors there is a difference of 40% in the overall cost. Even if we have NPM in place and we try to monitor server/virtualization from it, we don’t get the entire benefits. Reason being hardware monitoring is available only via SAM, use of templates or monitoring of services cannot be used etc.

                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                            Use case 3: The benefits of SAM node based of allowing Free APEs ; free APE is only for SAM specific nodes so again this doesn’t help even for the multi module deployments. Correct me if m wrong.. and does SAM Node based also provide HA free?

                                                                                                                              • Re: $20,000 for 100 Node SAM License?
                                                                                                                                aLTeReGo

                                                                                                                                pratikmehta003  wrote:

                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                Use case 3: The benefits of SAM node based of allowing Free APEs ; free APE is only for SAM specific nodes so again this doesn’t help even for the multi module deployments. Correct me if m wrong.. and does SAM Node based also provide HA free?

                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                SAM Node based licensing does not include Orion High Availability for free. This is no different than SAM Component based licensing. Currently, Orion High Availability is only included with NAM. For all other products, Orion High Availability is a seperate purchase.

                                                                                                                                2 of 2 people found this helpful