22 Replies Latest reply on Oct 5, 2018 9:03 AM by typhoon87

    Worried about deprecation notice in 12.6 release notes

    typhoon87

      Upon reading the final version of the release notes for 12.6 I was worried when I saw that Windows 2012 and 2012 R2 are being deprecated. in a future release. The issue for me is this would kill 3 version of the OS in one go. 08R2,12,12R2 I think this is a lot and that not everyone is ready to go 16, At this point I still have a lot of 08r2 in my environment including both WHD application servers and was hoping to use 12.6 as the jumping point to go to 2012 R2. I would like to see if SW would give us a reason why they are depraving so many OS versions at one time.

       

      I could certainly understand if they said they are announcing 08r2 depreciation and possibly even understand deprecating 12(notR2) but three OS versions at one time seems a bit much give only 16 is out and 19 is in testing now.

       

      What OS is everyone else using to host their production WHD application and web front ends on?

       

      Please note: I am working on the assumption that any 12.6.X service releases would not change the requirements as they are the same major version but that Vnext perhaps 12.7 would implement this change

        • Re: Worried about deprecation notice in 12.6 release notes
          justin.gray@weldre4.k12.co.us

          We're on 2012.  But we run mostly virtual, and a move to 2016 won't be a big deal.

           

          2008 mainstream support ended in 2015 and extended support end-date is just around the corner, so that makes sense to me. 2012 has another 5 years of extended support, so deprecation by Solarwinds seems awfully premature.

           

          But... given that WHD has taken 4 years to go from .2 to .6, I wouldn't be too worried about the timeline. Probably won't see .7 until this time next year.

          • Re: Worried about deprecation notice in 12.6 release notes
            dodo123

            Hi, that is related to the os you build the Solarwinds application on not the clients you monitor with Solarwinds. Lot of new features in 2016 that Solarwinds are using to make improvements.

             

            cheers

            • Re: Worried about deprecation notice in 12.6 release notes
              HerrDoktor

              It is stated in all Solarwinds product updates. So I see this as a friendly reminder to plan ahead to move to 2016. I personally wouldn’t rush but plan accordingly.

               

              cheers

              • Re: Worried about deprecation notice in 12.6 release notes
                ecklerwr1

                I've actually thought the same thing... another example is the change back to SQL Server 2016 for NTA.  I get why but moving the database isn't a lot of fun to do.

                • Re: Worried about deprecation notice in 12.6 release notes
                  serena

                  typhoon87  wrote:

                   

                  Upon reading the final version of the release notes for 12.6 I was worried when I saw that Windows 2012 and 2012 R2 are being deprecated. in a future release. The issue for me is this would kill 3 version of the OS in one go. 08R2,12,12R2 I think this is a lot and that not everyone is ready to go 16, At this point I still have a lot of 08r2 in my environment including both WHD application servers and was hoping to use 12.6 as the jumping point to go to 2012 R2. I would like to see if SW would give us a reason why they are depraving so many OS versions at one time.

                   

                  I could certainly understand if they said they are announcing 08r2 depreciation and possibly even understand deprecating 12(notR2) but three OS versions at one time seems a bit much give only 16 is out and 19 is in testing now.

                   

                  What OS is everyone else using to host their production WHD application and web front ends on?

                   

                  Please note: I am working on the assumption that any 12.6.X service releases would not change the requirements as they are the same major version but that Vnext perhaps 12.7 would implement this change

                  SolarWinds is simply getting in line with Microsoft's end of life policy. They are ending mainstream support for 2012 in October. Also, just keep in mind that this is exactly why we provide downloads to previous versions. While you may have to wait a bit to get to the very latest versions of SolarWinds products, there will always be a version that is compatible with your environment that you can install and use.

                  • Re: Worried about deprecation notice in 12.6 release notes
                    rschroeder

                    We're required to keep up with Microsoft's server changes, restrictions, and limitations.  Whenever MS announces version retirements, we are off those versions well before hand.  This ensures we limit our liabilities by being current, by only using fully-supported systems with current security patches and with forward paths.

                     

                    "Being forced to change", whether by MS or another vendor seems hard or unfair; it's not.  It retires limited systems and vulnerable platforms, and is appreciated since it also forces other vendors to up their games.  Sometimes we see bad designs come through--vendors who only support their "current products" on Windows 95 (still!) or W98; they claim we can still use their products by simply not patching, not upgrading the PC's or servers on which their out of date software runs, and by installing one-off firewalls to compensate for the vulnerabilities of W95 or W98.

                     

                    That's no way to do business.  So we retire those obsolete apps and platforms and keep where we can have current patches and hotfixes.

                     

                    When SW announced NTA should run on SQL 2016, I put aside my upgrade plans from NPM 12.2 to 12.3, since it would come with the other half-dozen SW modules we own--including NTA--because we don't yet support SQL 2016.  We will by year's end, so delaying the upgrade to 12.3 feels like it's been a good choice for me, given the very-visible problems a percentage of SW users have experienced.   Now that (most of?) the bugs have been worked out of 12.3, I've been beta testing 12.4 and its peer module versions.  I won't have to worry about the bugs because they'll probably all be gone by the time I get SQL 2016 in place to host NTA's new version.

                     

                    Yes, being forced to upgrade anything is inconvenient and maybe unpleasant.  But it's the way the IT world operates.  One may as well face up to it and get on top of the curve instead of behind it.

                    2 of 2 people found this helpful
                      • Re: Worried about deprecation notice in 12.6 release notes
                        typhoon87

                        While I do understand that things need to move forward legacy and budget concerns are certainly a real-world issue as well.  While its true mainstream support for 2012 R2 ends this year, extended security updates and critical patches are still supported unitl 2023. Also at this time there is only one non beta release out 2016. It think for that this is a bit premature. and that additional consideration should be given on that.

                          • Re: Worried about deprecation notice in 12.6 release notes
                            serena

                            typhoon87  wrote:

                             

                            While I do understand that things need to move forward legacy and budget concerns are certainly a real-world issue as well.  While its true mainstream support for 2012 R2 ends this year, extended security updates and critical patches are still supported unitl 2023. Also at this time there is only one non beta release out 2016. It think for that this is a bit premature. and that additional consideration should be given on that.

                            Absolutely, but also consider this from Microsoft's point of view. They are going to be very choosy about what they provide in patches as they are clearly indicating as a business that the go forward infrastructure is 2016 and later. It's a 6 year old  platform that has reached the end of it's lifecycle, so true investments will be hard to justify. In addition, we at SolarWinds have absolutely given consideration to the dilemma of budget you've outlined.

                             

                            Have you looked at the documentation that was provided for the NTA 4.4 release? The performance requirements for the NTA 4.4 release made it mandatory that SQL 2016 be used for the columnstore index functionality. However, we provided a preflight check to ensure that users like yourself who are not ready for the move have an alternative path. This is one of many examples of the considerations that we're providing in the installer and other places. And as always, you have the ability to access any version that is compatible with your infrastructure set up, as I described before. 

                             

                            The technology stack provided for 2016 has made it clear that 2016 will give customers what they've been asking for all along - faster performance of the UI and of the database. A consolidated footprint of resources. Our internal tests have shown that it's really going to evolve the user experience that our products provide, so what we're trying to do is be as transparent as possible, and give you ample time to prepare and hopefully get to that infrastructure soon. Once you're set up, you'll have the best possible monitoring experience at your fingertips, and it will be stable for a long while.

                            2 of 2 people found this helpful
                              • Re: Worried about deprecation notice in 12.6 release notes
                                rpas

                                serena  wrote:

                                 

                                Have you looked at the documentation that was provided for the NTA 4.4 release? The performance requirements for the NTA 4.4 release made it mandatory that SQL 2016 be used for the columnstore index functionality. However, we provided a preflight check to ensure that users like yourself who are not ready for the move have an alternative path. This is one of many examples of the considerations that we're providing in the installer and other places. And as always, you have the ability to access any version that is compatible with your infrastructure set up, as I described before.

                                So I have a unique scenario, relevant to my organization:

                                 

                                We have just completed a reaccredidation for our network which essentially locks in major version upgrades, OS changes, security posture. If we deviate from this at all we must complete another reaccredidation(which could take up to 8 months to complete). On top of that we are now planning 6 years out(Carrier RCOH process takes a LONG time to where we need to plan this far out) to try to get the money we need from Uncle Sam. With the advent of SolarWinds deciding to migrate off of 2012 how long can we expect ya'll to support that alternative path? I think we would have another 3 years or so before we reaccredidate.

                                  • Re: Worried about deprecation notice in 12.6 release notes
                                    mesverrum

                                    Then it would sound like you go to as high of a version as is compatible within your accreditation and do not upgrade beyond that until the next accreditation cycle.  With a locked down environment like that I imagine that not running the latest and greatest of all software is somewhat expected. 

                                    1 of 1 people found this helpful
                                      • Re: Worried about deprecation notice in 12.6 release notes
                                        rschroeder

                                        Your theory sounds good.

                                         

                                        On the other hand, I've been burned by going with the newest deployments by various vendors.  Sometimes they end that deployment's life, sometimes they seem to spend more resources fixing the previous version, sometimes they just skip ahead another version number or two and start from scratch. 

                                         

                                        I'd go with SolarWinds' recommendations and best practices, combined with information from Microsoft about their version.  I trust SW more than MS.

                              • Re: Worried about deprecation notice in 12.6 release notes
                                bmallon

                                I'm currently working on migrating all of our SolarWinds servers to 2016. I'm getting down to my last server, my SQL server, and I'm getting real nervous. I'm running SQL 2014 and if I'm going to bite the bullet, I'm thinking I'll upgrade my SQL version as well. Has anyone attempted to use SQL 2017 yet? Is SQL 2017 supported by SolarWinds yet, or am I good to plow forward here?

                                • Re: Worried about deprecation notice in 12.6 release notes
                                  George Sutherland

                                  Just started down the 2016 road... Keeping current is painful and necessary at the same time.

                                   

                                  Good luck..

                                    • Re: Worried about deprecation notice in 12.6 release notes
                                      rschroeder

                                      I was working with SolarWinds Support yesterday on the current NTA Beta, which I've installed on Server 2016.  Support asked me to run the Diagnostics Generator Tool on the server and I tried to use my Windows Server 2012 skills to find it.  WindowsKey + E, typing in Solar or Orion or Diagnostics into the Server 2016 search window . . .

                                       

                                      Nothing worked.

                                       

                                      Support told me I'd have to browse to it manually--that the Windows Server 2016 Search function is broken in the OS, and that SolarWinds has had numerous support cases opened with Microsoft to understand the problem and to get it corrected.  There's been no joy from MS, so far.

                                       

                                      And I assumed Microsoft would have improved all things in Server 2016 without having broken something that worked on all previous versions.

                                       

                                      People wonder why I have a chip on my shoulder towards Microsoft.  To tell the truth, they're just the easy target.  Apple was no better.  Linux, the same.  And don't get me started with Cisco, Nortel, or 3Com over the last 25 years.

                                       

                                      The only one I've had consistently good luck with is Infoblox, and I've regularly referenced their one-touch upgrade solution when talking with SolarWinds staff.  Whether it was coming anyway, or whether my input had some impact, SolarWinds upgrades have become more all-inclusive and easier and reliable over the years.  No matter the bugs any major upgrade has temporarily introduced, and no matter the months of headaches I've had with those bugs and their eventual corrections with patches & hot fixes, upgrades are MUCH easier and better than they were back in 2004 when I started down this road.

                                       

                                      And I'm happy to be SolarWinds champion in my company, due in good part to those continued improvements.

                                       

                                      It's just hard, sometimes, to remember how bad it used to be, and to tell myself how much better it is now.