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Level 16

Anyone else having issues getting NPM to map out the topology correctly?

What is the minimum requirements for a node to be able to discover populate the NPM Network Topology Map fields?

On both nodes I checked all of the routing options, and layer 2 and layer 3 topology. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.

What are the mechanics behind this?

When it doesn't work I can't connect the nodes together in Orion Network Atlas.

Any suggestions?

Node 'A'

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Node 'B'

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33 Replies
Product Manager
Product Manager

whomademesme​ this is certainly not the typical experience we hear from our customers and support.  I apologize for the frustration this has caused.  We are certainly working on a number of improvements around maps in Orion, which I am happy to chat with you about, but for now, lets get your issue resolved.  Can you share with me your support case number please?  I will have it escalated appropriately. 

I have an long time unresolved case number 00086124 and wish you could help me out regarding the lay3 map. I am running the latest version 12.3 NPM

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Level 13

I have many nodes, many of them at remote sites where the remote site doesn't appear to have complete topology mapping and no auto-dependency mapping.  Given the large number of remote sites we support and the alert noise on those remote sites when something happens, the lack of auto-dependencies has been a problem. 

Many of these sides are connected back to a pair of VPN hubs.  We don't seem to get topology mapping or auto-dependencies from the VPN hubs to the remote sites, or even on physical connections between devices on those remote sites.  I am not sure how to fix that, and don't look forward to doing a hundred manual dependencies.

John Handberg
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Remote offices don't always make the topology cut because of the way the algorithm is implemented. We don't really analyze the VLAN connections for Layer 3 tunnel connections, so a manual entry into the TopologyConnections table is going to help you out here. I would make the connection from your edge router of the network your Orion is on to the edge router of each remote office.

Topology cases take the longest to solve and I should probably write a blog post about it, but in general

SELECT * FROM NodeCiscoCdpEntries WHERE NodeID = <your node id here where you are expecting the connection>

SELECT * FROM NodeL2Connections WHERE NodeID = <NodeID>

SELECT * FROM NodeLldpEntries WHERE NodeID = <NodeID>

If none of these three tables have the necessary data for the connection you are looking for, then your device isn't giving us enough data to make the connection. If there is data there for the right connection, then we generally have to look at the topology calculation algorithm to see why it is being filtered out.

Let me know if you need more detail how how to read the data from these tables, but they are direct dumps of the corresponding SNMP tables.

I just came across this thread as I am having an issue with a number of devices that are not showing the complete topology data. I ran all three queries you suggested against a few of my devices with missing interfaces in the NPM network topology (the missing interfaces are "checked" under "list resources") and got results in the NodeCiscoCdpEntries table, as expected, with CDP enabled. What would be the next steps you would suggest for further troubleshooting why these interfaces are not appearing in the NPM network topology? Thanks!

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To figure out if a connection is possible in the data look at the data from the nodes in question.

From the Node CDP Entries. From the Node ID column and the IfIndex, you should be able to see the IP Address that it is connected to on the far end. This is going to be your highest success of having an edge in the topology.

I go to this page (http://myorionserver/orion/admin/swis.aspx) and run these queries (or use SQWL Studio if you are a SWIS ninja).

SELECT CacheAddressType, DeviceId, DevicePort, IfIndex, IpAddress, NodeID, Uri FROM Orion.NodeCdpEntry

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Is the IfIndex on your node managed and is the interface on the device described by devideId and deviceport managed. If so, you should be seeing an edge. If no edge is in TopologyData then we need to trouble shoot further.

Execute this query:

SELECT DataSourceNodeID, DestInterfaceID, DestNodeID, DestType, LastUpdateUtc, SrcInterfaceID, SrcNodeID, SrcType FROM Orion.TopologyData

For a result like this

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Or this query

SELECT DataSourceNodeID, DestInterfaceID, DestNodeID, DestType, LayerType, SrcInterfaceID, SrcNodeID, SrcType FROM Orion.TopologyConnections

for a result like this:

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Note that an entry with ShadowNodes means we believe that there is a device in the network that is not being managed by NPM and is in between nodes you are managing.

Let me know if this helps or if I can clarify any points.

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So what further troubleshooting can be done if an edge is in the NodeCiscoCDPEntries table, but is not in the TopologyConnections table? I'm running 12.4 and the table columns have changed. I'm correlating SourceNodeID to MappedNodeID. In my case, nodeID 661 has a topology entry to 663. But 663 does not have a topology entry for 661. I don't how the TopologyConnections table is built.

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Thank you Karlo!

I will run these against the switches I am having issues with.

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I will be looking into this.  I suspect that there are no current entries in the table between the edge routers and the remote sites.  My SQL skills are not far along right now, so adding new entries might be a challenge right now.

John Handberg
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Thanks for the comment John. I a experiencing the same issue. Waiting for Support to contact me still on case ##1079025.

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Hi

I have the problem with Nodes  that are remote connected  PtP  MPLS/ETHERNET  and dark fiber...

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I still have not heard from support on case #1079025 I'm really hoping the rider didn't get ambushed bringin' my reply....

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bobmarleyKarlo.Zatylny​ is the guy who made this. I would start tagging him and asking questions here because he's literally the most technical person at Solarwinds to discuss topology with. I'd read his replies ASAP.

Level 16

So, what I was trying to do was create maps of my WAN using Orion Network Atlas that would show each location as an icon and then a line in between near/far end that represents the circuit AND utilization.

My links between sites are layer 3 - dark fiber, or traditional telcom circuits.

I assumed to have the Connect Now feature working I would need to have the Layer 2 and Layer 3 topology turned on - which doesn't work as advertised.

I also assumed the 'Discover Topology' feature was used to go out on a regular basis and perform this function - Not True.

Apparently it only works on nodes that were discovered using the Auto-Discovery and not any of the manually added nodes. Well, most of my nodes were added manually...

so that feature just plain won't work without deleting and rediscovering them.

Is there any way to work around this?

I found a previous thread that looks like a known issue that was never fixed... pastedImage_7.png

Network Atlas - Link Utilization

And also this  http://www.solarwinds.com/netperfmon/solarwinds/wwhelp/wwhimpl/common/html/wwhelp.htm?context=SolarW...

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Hi bobmarley, hello from the SW doc team:) Could you please tell me where you found the link to the obsolete topic? http://www.solarwinds.com/netperfmon/solarwinds/wwhelp/wwhimpl/common/html/wwhelp.htm?context=SolarW...

The latest version of the topic is available in our customer success center at https://support.solarwinds.com/Success_Center/Network_Performance_Monitor_(NPM)/NPM_Administrator_Gu...

Here is how I got to the documentation.

From inside Network Atlas:

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Help - Network Atlas Help - Network Atlas Features - "Connecting Objects Automatically with ConnectNow”.

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Here is another good piece of information that sales forwarded on to me.

Network Atlas tooltip variables

When you can't use connect now for some reason such as it being a WAN Link you can still show the utilization of the links using the Label Variables

from the link above. I used something similar to this to display mine 'Site1-toSite2  ${CR} In ${InPercentUtil} ${CR} Out ${OutPercentUtil}'

I just put a cloud in between mine then drew the lines then edited the lines.

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The lines will at least show the utilization, however they won't change color like the one that 'Connect Now' makes.

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Are you saying node A & B are physically connected, bobmarley​ ?

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Yes, and even if I manually connect the nodes together by using the line tool and then adding the interfaces to the line object manually the line object still will not display the utilization.

I suspect it is related to what is highlighted above.

Here is an example though. Node A (Data Center) and node B (Remote Location), both routers reside physically at two different locations. Node B has no alternate route back to Node A. They are directly connected together via a point to point fiber optic connection.

Both have all routing protocols, Layer 2 and Layer 3 checked in 'list resources'. If I place them on a map and do the Connect Now function and chose layer 2 and layer 3 a layer 2 link is discovered but does not update utilization stats. If I delete the link and do layer 3 only discovery it does not discover anything. If I look at the route tables on the network tab I show the routes on both nodes.

I have other tools available to do this function, I was just hoping to use Solarwinds since it's normally my "Macguyver' do everything tool

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Hi

Please open support ticket and keep the thread updated

there are many threads about topology disco problems ..

In some of them its Solarwinds in some it's not ...

sadly some of the bugs are quite old...