Chat Log - Day 1: News about Traffic and Performance Management (NPM, VNQM, NTA, NTM, & Engineer's Toolset)

This is the chat log for Day 1 Session 1 which ran from 9am - 1030am CST.  Please see the attached document to download this session's chat history.



Sent To


Davidno video and no sound
bScienceFictionI just got sound
sandipor try refreshing page
StuartWhyteCliton1981YAY! Here we go! :)
Davidrefresh worked
Jakeso this is where all our money goes :p
Cliton1981StuartWhyteMy desk !
sandipPlease feel free to ask questions throughout the presentation here in the    chat
sandipyou can also make the presentation on the left full screen if preferred
michal.hrncirikspecially the VoIP is hot topic last couple of months
StevenYay... refresh worked for sound/video
francoisjspanitzHello jspanitz
sandipOne last reminder
michal.hrncirikI've heard a lot about MS Lync on your side that's getting more and more    likes from our user customer base. would guys agree that it is a solid and    robust VoIP tool or is it still more "new toy" for you?
BrianLeeWhere is the day 1 quiz?
jspanitzHey francois!  Looking forward to    thwackcamp.
LeonAdatoRolled it out enterprise wide. So I guess that takes it out of the    "toy" category
LeonAdatoenterprise = 30k employees
michal.hrncirikHi Leon
aandersenOur company is moving over to MS Lync at the beginning of the year.
sandipDay 1 quiz opens at 12noon CST
BrianLeeOhh okay thanks
LeonAdatoYes. All meetings and IM goes through it.
ScottSadlochaWe have MS Lync rolled out to the enterprise
JakeWe use Lync 2013 for our IT only
LeonAdatoI won't say I love it (because I am congenitally unable to like anything    from M$)
ChipPatrickHubbardwe are rolling Lync out as a service for our hosted customers by the end    of the year
jspanitzmichal.hrncirk we are deploying lync as more of a core tool which is    different than the IM function it used to hold for us.
LeonAdatoBut I would say you guys need to not only address it
warnesaI have no sound or video :-(
ScottSadlochaWe have a Cisco VoIP system and that is used for all voice.
JakeLync calls are beautiful here.
aandersenYou have problem calling clients with Lync?
sandipwarnesatry refreshing the page
michal.hrncirikyup I do have
PaulAny idea if Solarwinds is going to support more than just Cisco for VQM    in future?
aandersenHow often?
StevenI'd really like to see Juniper RPM support
francoisjspanitzAnybody in the audience interested in managing Avaya VoIP infrastructure    with products like VnQM?
michal.hrncirikHi Paul
ChipAdilWe are rolling Lync out this year and will be looking at this product to    monitor quality
michal.hrncirikalmost every day.
warnesathanks sandip
jspanitzWe have Avaya Blue not Red.  Which    are you referring to?
michal.hrncirikI'm calling other side
aandersenThat's not very comforting...That is going to be our sole service...
PaulThanks re: avaya support - anything else coming? (ie. Adtran
michal.hrncirikwhat Lync config do you guys have
Mikewhat if you Have a vendor that does not appear in the list? I.E. Digium
RichardLettsWe'e deploying Lync  par of an    enterprise Offie365
michal.hrncirikfor VoIP we see Avaya
dklimenkovWe use LYNC2013 with Cisco CUCM
francoisPaulWe have discussions internally about Polycom from a Vid Con perspective.    Also Lync discussions as you can see
michal.hrncirikhey Richard
BrianLeeis this going to be reposted as a recording?
PaulfrancoisThank you!
BrianLeesweet thanks
francoisjspanitzcan you remeind me what you are using as far as voIP?
Jake@DKLimenkov can you call desk phones from lync?
francoisPaulhow critical is the Polycom need
dklimenkovJake@Jake - yes
michal.hrncirikactive VNQM users - if you use VNQM for troubleshooting
JakedklimenkovCan I hit you up offline to learn more of your config?
TomWill VNQM work at the moment with Mitel IP 3300 systems or is that in the    pipeline?
AshleyCHello all
warnesaI'm interested in Mitel too
sandipBrianLeeHello Ashley!
aandersenG'Morning AshleyC
MikeIs there a list of all of the supported vendors available somewhere? or    is there a way to add one that is not currently on the list?
AshleyCAfternoon here in the UK :D
aandersenMy bad...
AshleyCMorning to you all
michal.hrncirikHi Tom
StevenMorning here in Australia too! ^_-
PaulfrancoisIf we had the ability to monitor Adtran TA series (we use them for hosted    PBX all the time) that would be awesome...
jspanitzfrancoisfrancois we are using Lync / Avaya Blue (Nortel) and Cisco.  We have it all covered :(
Jakemichal.hrncirikWe have VNQM
LilyThe video is stuck every second
dklimenkovJakeI see no  video at all
michal.hrncirikJakeyou mean it doesn't provide you data you are looking for? or you don't    need to troubleshoot calls?
StevefrancoisWe looked at it when we came down to Austin and in the past in other    company but were Avaya shop
pedramno i have same problem
Shawnmichal.hrncirikneither do i
aandersenVideo is working fine here
CaraLilyAre you on wifi or connected to a hardline? Try refreshing the page
ecklerwr1It's a powerpoint presentation not video really
dklimenkovJakeJust a black screen
aandersenLive Video
ShawnI don't see anything
premanandasame here
ecklerwr1slides ie. no animation.
sandipTry connecting to hard-wire and/or refreshing page
aandersenI'm watching through Chrome
michal.hrncirikShawnwhen would have to be there to make it useful for you?
jspanitzfrancoisThe video is flash based - every upgrade to the latest version :)
premanandablack screen
LilyI see the presentation but it's just stuck and no sound
Mike1. Hard wire 2. Refresh 3. check flash version.
Jakemichal.hrncirikOne error I have seen is temp failure
sandipif you still have issues you can re-watch the session when the recording    is posted to this page later
kbottworking fine in Firefox
Mikefine in chrome
MattNWhat doesnt kbott
ecklerwr1make sure scripts are allowed to a bunch of sites including I had to add that site and added as well    not sure it's really needed though.
DmitryIt says THe vide is currently unavailable
jspanitzLove the new maps.  Only problem is    scrolling in the NPM UI can cause the map to scroll.  Map should not scroll unless I click inside    the map
DmitryDmitry = dklimenkov
Kyujin10.6 was released? I couldn't see from recent releases note
DmitryBTW: i did not understand how to use the new maps - any guidelines ?
jakecan you create links on StreetMaps?
PaulfrancoisAnyone know with World Maps is there a way to open the map at a    "common" view such as a specific country instead of worldwide?
ecklerwr1These OpenStreetMaps are killer!    You don't even need network atlas to use it!!!
kbottwill these maps be available in SAM 6.0?
jakethe ability to type in a address rather than gps coordinates would be    cool
Stevenew maps are great its a good start
ecklerwr1they area in NPM10.6
michal.hrncirikNPM 10.6 announcement
Steveneed to fix the scrolling
AshleyCthe web reporting is so good imo an amazing update to the platform.
francoisjspanitzare you saying that you would like ot scroll the page down but still have    teh map separated from teh page and always be visible?
ecklerwr1I like that you can save the zoom and position of the new maps so it    loads just the way you want it to but then can zoom or move around to your    hearts content!
pedramnew reporting is awesome
Steveon my summary page I have the map resource and it will scroll sometimes    when I am not directly with in the map itself
AshleyCgetting some really good feedback.. last thing to top it off would be the    ability to schedule the report from the UI
michal.hrncirikhow do you usually display the map? in a small resource on summary page    or you guys have new window with bigger map?
francoisStevewhat do you mean by "scrolling" in this context?
Paulecklerwr1how do you save the zoom?
aandersenWe use a smaller resource on out summary page
jspanitzmichal.hrncirikA network atlas layer I think
michal.hrncirikclick edit on the openstreetmap settings
michal.hrncirikthanks John.
Steveso the map will zoom in and out even if I am not in the map resource
ecklerwr1I have the new map on about 1/4 of the homepage in NPM.
francoisSteveto all on reporting
Paulmichal.hrncirikAhhh... thank you I'll check that out...
francoisto all on reporting
jspanitzfrancoisI don't like how scrolling up / down in NPM causes the map to scroll if    my mouse happens to be over that area of the NPM page.
jspanitzfrancoisMap should be scoll locked unless I click on map object.
Steveyea what jspanitz said - lol
ecklerwr1I've found that if the mouse is over the map and you scroll the wheel on    your mouse the zoom will change sometimes on accident.
AshleyCIs there anyway to place nodes on the map using a Custom Property rather    than manually?
francoisSteveyep got it now - tks
ecklerwr1no big problem though really
AshleyCI have over 3500 site independent nodes that need to be mapped..
michal.hrncirikis OpenStreetmap map source good for you guys or you missing some of the    "google" map features/data
DmitryHow to use those maps ? Can anybody send me a link to clarify ?
jakeAshleyCAshley you should hire an intern? :)
Stevei like the Openstreetmap its diff a great start
jspanitzFor us OpenStreetmap is fine
ecklerwr1AshleyC I think someone is doing that somehow already but they are doing    it outside the normal interface.
AshleyC@Jake I wish chap
francoisAshleyCnot today
AshleyCecklerwr1Thanks very much
AshleyCfrancoisThank you
RichardLettsare "May favorite reports" personal to the individual
pedramis it live map such google map?
francoisRichardLettsI'm pretty sure they are attached to you
AmberCan you add a node to multiple groups?
michal.hrncirikpedramyes it is
ecklerwr1amber... YES.
pedramso the map use internet for zoom in
michal.hrncirikAmberyes you can do that. depends what condition you will chose
Amberthank you
Stevethe ability to add groups
michal.hrncirikpedramcorrect - the map data are streamed from the OpenStreetmap servers
DmitryAre OpenMaps to be used in Atlas ? Or somehow directly from NPM web    interface ?
francoisSteveall on the list
ecklerwr1outside of atlas dmitry
francoisDmitryseparate from Atlas today
ecklerwr1web interface
ErikDDmitry it is a special resource you add to the page and edit from within    that resource
pedramcan we have download map in use it without internet?
Stevei have no doubt that is on the road map .. 10.6 with maps and web    reporting was a great upgrade - thanks francois
DmitryOutside of Atlas means what ? Directly from NPM ?
francoisdo you like teh OpenStree maps separate from Atlas (today) or merged to    it in teh future?
ecklerwr1yes dmitry
DmitryHowto ?
ecklerwr1Just add the new map as a resource then add the nodes from inside web    interface no longer need to run network atlas application
sandipHey Jacob!
DmitryWhen i add the new map to the view
Kyujinvoice is very clear.
RigGreat demo!  Cant wait to get our    new server set up and make use of the new features.
AshleyCfrancoiswas thinking that
pedramcan we have download maps and use them without internet?
michal.hrncirikDmitryclick "customize page" -> "add resource" ->    "World wide map of Orion Nodes"
Jbeuclerno more data roll up!
ZibaCan we upgrade from NTA 3.10 to 4.0?
SteveYEA NTA 4.0
Jbeucleryes Ziba
michal.hrncirikpedramI believe there is a cache that keeps your latest map view but NPM    doesn't do any pre-caching or full download of map data
ecklerwr1it should say Map Data by OpenStreetMap and Tiles by Mapquest at the    bottom of map resource.
newkidd2Will the historical data on NTA be migrated to the new NTA database?
Jbeucleryou will have the choice to migrate it if you like
Jbeucleror you can clean up the data with out migrating
Jbeucleror save the data for later
pedramit's not good because of security issue
ecklerwr1wow that's a huge change with NTA polling sounds like...
newkidd2security issue????
Dmitry@ecklerw1 - does not work
francoisnewkidd2how important is it for you to preserve your history?
DmitryI have 10.6
ecklerwr1doesn't sound like the new map resource Dmitry
newkidd2ah... sorry
AshleyCare we going to get x64 for the NPM soon?
Cliton1981StuartWhyteHave you'll tried NTM ? What do you like about tool and what needs    improvement ?
pedramyes world map should be used with internet
ecklerwr1resource is called Worldwide Map of Orion Nodes Dmitry
Dmitry@ecklerw1 - i am at NPM summary page. - Customize Page - Added a new MAP    resource on the right panel list. Correct ?
RichardScanning bad.
michal.hrncirikAshleyCnot now
ErikD@Dmitry worldwide map resource I not a regular map resource
ecklerwr1at the bottom of the list when you add resource... for me it is.
pedramRichardagree richard
ecklerwr1correct ErikD
ecklerwr1new resource completely.
francoisRichardnot sure. We'll ask dev
RichardWhy doesn't Atlas make use of LLDP for ConnectNow?
AshleyCmichal.hrncirikTo be perfectly honest with you I dont tend to have resource issues with    the NPM servers
francoispedramwhat issue did you encounter with NTM scanning?
francoisRichardwhat issue did you encounter with NTM scanning?
Dmitry@ecklerw1 - thanx alot ! Got it.
ecklerwr1Awesome Dmitry :^}
michal.hrncirikAshleyCunderstand Ashley
ecklerwr1its pretty killer
SteveI like the NTM product but I felt it should have been an add on to NPM ..    but thats just me :-)
RichardScanning in general; have more than 4000 switches
ZibaWhere the WMI will be used (why)?
pedramit is use encryption for credential ?
Cliton1981StuartWhyteWMI is secure
ecklerwr1I agree Steve! should have been part of NPM
Cliton1981StuartWhyteand provides valuable information from Windows systems
AshleyCmichal.hrncirikCouldnt agree more Michal :D
AshleyCmichal.hrncirikLike I said I dont tend to see resource issues..
ecklerwr1especially since we've lived with network atlas this long :P
Stevewe have most of it already in NPM in one for another it would have been a    good bridge tie in
AshleyCmichal.hrncirikBut I did get an interesting error from the NPM informing me that I    attempted to Devide by 0
michal.hrncirikAshleyCsend us (support or Thwack) error message or diags and we will solve it.    we should not divide by 0 ;)
Cliton1981StuartWhyteWhat do you'll think about Endpoint to switch port mapping functionality    in NTM ?
JakeWill the recent acquisition of confio brink any new features to us SAM    owners?
RhidiansAshleyCI been resisting asking that (plus curious about Nable ;p)
AshleyCI can tell you how I got it.. but I will pop something on the forum    shortly
pedramwhat is the password [Emotion=emteeth.gif]
sandip10mins left in this presentation
ecklerwr1See right there is looks like it should be part of NPM!
JakeLook at that its not just a pile of nodes.
Cliton1981StuartWhyteAny questions on NTM ?
Steve@ecklerwr1  correct
francoisSteveNTM is focused on doc use cases (supposed to to deeper). You can    integrate NTM with NPM (i.e. push NTM maps to NTM Atlas)
Richarddoes it build groups based on the nodes mapped?
Jakefree ntm to all who attend todays class?
jspanitzAny way get all the products to use one discover engine / database so we    don't have all these discovers going on?
RichardDoes it update the dependencies automatically in NPM so we don't need to    do that manually?
Stevei know francois but it should been part of NPM as it tie so many things    together ..
pedramtoo strong password [Emotion=emwink.gif]
michal.hrncirikpedramIt has an exclamation mark in it
Stevefirst thing that was  said when I    downloaded the trial for the network team ..
Cliton1981RichardWould you want to control that ?
Cliton1981Richardthen being automated
JakeDo you have to pay for each install of ToolSet?
AshleyCdoes the engineering toolset need to be installed on the NPM
jspanitzIt has an exclamation mark in it, so it's un-breakable Heeeeee
Cliton1981JakeToolset can be installed anywhere on your network. However it should be    able to talk to your Orion server
Cliton1981Jakeif you want to integrate
ecklerwr1@michal.hrncirik If NTM rocks then network atlas 5uck5... it's like still    using windows 3.1 tools as part of Windows 2k8r2 :P
francoisjspanitzgood question. Orion's DB is kind of the repositiry and we are thinking    of tigher integration between NTM and Orion
Stevebut to do what he is doing its installed locally on his PC correct
jspanitzDumb question - is there a way to do a right click "Open in new    window"  The toolset takes that    away.
Steveif you install on the orion server it can only be used like that form the    Orion server
Jakeright now we have it installed on NPM server
jspanitzfrancoisI just hate having all this dicscovery traffic
ScottSadlochaFirst time I installed the toolset I installed it on my laptop
ecklerwr1that's right Jake
AshleyCJakeSame problem for me
AprilRieseWhen will NTA 4.0 will be released
Stevecough cough MAC support tool set -LOL
Shawnwhats the path to get to the toolset?
aandersenWhat was the path to the Toolset again?
AshleyCYou're Welcome Michal
francoisjspanitzmakes sense.
Jbeucler(April) We are still in beta
ecklerwr1nice Jbeucler
ScottSadlochaNTA looks great
francoisScottSadlochawhat type of problems?
ZibaWhere do we see the archive for this presentation and thank you for great    presentation!
AndyNTA looks pretty awesome!!
Cliton1981ShawnPath to enable right click integration ?
ScottSadlochaDon't recall exact error messages and the like
michal.hrncirikthanks guys
JbeuclerIf you are interested in participating in the RC of NTA 4.0
MikeFor VnQM is there functionality for vendors that are not on the Vendor    list? IE Digium?
ScottSadlochaIt has been a while since I tried it.
sandipRecorded presentations will be added to this page as they end
RichardBuilding dependencies today is very time-consuming and laborious. If I    could descibe how to make it less so I'd create an Idean on thwack for it. I    was hoping NTM might add dependancies automatically where it notices (for    example) one edge switch only has one uplink connection.
Steven@JBeucler - I've already been helping you with the beta :P
ScottSadlochaI uninstalled it on my laptop at that time
kbottThanks for the great presentation
AndyDo we need an Engineer Toolset license for every machine that accesses    NTA to get  the right click    functionality back?
PadkinsHoping that in the near future more configurable scheduling will be    available for NCM.
Cliton1981ShawnC:\Program Files (x86)\SolarWinds\Toolset
jspanitzJbeuclerwe had the beta up but our beta box took a dump.  Is the RC close?
sandipOur next session
Steven@Jbeucler - will you mail everyone in the beta or do I have to join an RC    specific group?
Jbeucler@jspanitz It is
jtp74021with the new maps using open streets
francoisPadkinsthe next session will talk about NCM. In latest version
Jbeucler@Shuth I am emailing everyone in Beta
Cliton1981Andyyou just need one install. If you want Orion users to have access to the    right-click functionality
ChipI like the job scheduling in the web in 7.2
francoisChipgood to hear
AmberWe just purchase 4 modules of SW. Are there setup guides anywhere or do    they different modules need to be installed in a certain order?
JoshJbeucler@Jbeaucler I would like to be added the beta group.
ChipI am hoping that IPAM will have a functionality built in to pick up on    NAT in the near future
Steven@Jbeucler - Done!
PadkinsI have not had the time to preview it no.
Jbeucler@ Josh
scottmWe have the option to download the videos! Thank you!
Cliton1981AndyIf you'll haven't heard Toolset is moving to the web. More can be found    here
sandipOk everybody
Jbeucler@ Mike Sapp
francoisAmberall guides are here mentation/docu    mentation.aspx
francoisAmberremove spaces in the URL (...!???)
JakeCant wait for Web Helpdesk docs to be great :)
francoisAmberthere is usually no oreder and if there is it';s enforced. NPM before NTA    is pretty much the only one
PatrickHubbardI fixed it ;-)
Mikemichal.hrncirikThanks Michal
michal.hrncirikMikethe only thing that can work is IPSLA functionality if you use some Csico    devices on networking side.
michal.hrncirikMikeit's pretty short: Cisco CCMs v7 and higher. and for IPSLA it is all    Cisco devices that has IOS 12.3(T) - basically almost all Cisco devices are    IPSLA capable
AmberIs Loop 1 he best for trainig?
Omar Tawalbeh[Emotion=emthup.gif]
Mikemichal.hrncirikOk thank you
StevenAmberCorona are great
Jakewe were looking into Loop1 as well
DavidSigma Solutions is another one we are looking into
AmberThanks @Shuth I'll look into them as well.
ThomasIannelli@Amber where is Corona located?
LeonAdatoThe only 3 "big" names right now for training are Loop1
RhidiansRhyddianKenson Network Engineering also do training courses :)
LeonAdatothere may be another player on the horizon soon
Stevei have used loop in the past .. for training
Amber@ThomasIannelli I'm not sure. @Shuth do you know where Corona is located?
JFrazierThe people at Loop1 are great to work with!
Richard+1 Loop1 -- they did our initial install
AmberI like the option of Loop 1 training me on our own instance.
Jakealthough getting out of the office can be nice
aandersenThanks for the session guys! I learned a lot!
StevenAmberCorona are based in Tulsa
Omar Tawalbehreally thank you guys
AndyCliton1981We was told that the right-click functionality w/o Toolset installed is    deprecated after 10.4
Jakefrom what i was just told
RichardMichal asked me earlier about Lync+office365
Cliton1981AndyI would need to confirm that. Could you send me an email to ?
michal.hrncirikRichardis that something that Lync can simply handle better than other vendors?
LeonAdato+1 to wherever Steve Klassen is working.
PatrickHubbardLeon: :)
LeonAdatoIs NTM functionality also included in Engineering Toolset?
LeonAdatoor did I miss the part where it can run on a laptop?
AndyCliton1981I've sent you an email...
LeonAdatoWe have guys going into our Merger-and-acquisition sites who need to map    out the environment
Cliton1981AndyThanks Andy
LeonAdatoWe use Engineering Toolkit for the discovery and sanity-check
Cliton1981LeonAdatoNo Leon
Cliton1981LeonAdatoYou can integrate Toolset with NTM
LeonAdatoCliton1981On a laptop?
Cliton1981LeonAdatoBut the tools need to reside on the same machine
Cliton1981LeonAdatoif its laptop yes
Jakeanyone constantly having to restart snmp agent on Call Managers?
LeonAdatoCliton1981that's OK. Maybe I can justify an alienware box.
LeonAdatoJakewhat version of windows (or is this the newer Linux-based version?)
JakeLinux based Call Managers
LeonAdatoJakeTO THE MODERATORS: how can I maximize the video window but also be able    to see the chat window?
Jbeucler@Rhidians yes
LeonAdatoJakeEven if I open two browsers
StevenLeonAdatopause the video in the second screen
LeonAdatoJakesorry Jake. Didn't mean to send that just to you.
Jakethats alright
LeonAdatoStevenThanks. That did it.
StevenLeonAdatoThat's what I am doing here. The chat app only lets me have 1 chat window    active and the I stream the session on the other monitor
sandipGood to go now
LeonAdatosandipI mean yes.
Jbeucler@Rhidians You are welcome
sandipNext session will start in 15mins!
rmeridaHi from Spain
michal.hrncirikRichardhey there!
michal.hrncirikRichardthe upcoming session will be about configuration tools
michal.hrncirikRichardIP Address manager is one of those. do you mainly use IPAM because of    dynamic networks
sandipHi Spain!
Richardone central point for administration.
michal.hrncirikRichardthanks Richard. Other folks
ecklerwr1Using InfoBlox for DNS
KurtI mainly use it to manage our address space over a large network
ErikDIPAM is a great tool to spread the DHCP/DNS role
JbeuclerIn the next session we will be going over
ScottSadlochaAmberSame here. As Kurt that is.
sandip10mins till next presentation on Network Configuration Management
michal.hrncirikKurtbecause you don't trust automated systems or because of lack of some    functionality?
Chipwe aren't using the dns feature in IPAM. It caused some interesting side    affects in our environment
ecklerwr1Interested in how Firewall Security Manager is coming together?
ScottSadlochaAmberDHCP here is a bit of a mess.
Chipit actually created an entry on a root dns server to make the Orion    server its first forwarder option
ScottSadlochaAmberWhat the heck. Still stuck talking to Amber.
Chipoutside of that
RichardLettsright now I'm working on populating it with information for auditing    purposes. with such a large amount of address space applying for more from    ARIN is large mount of work.
KurtI really hate something working outside of Active Directory modifing the    DNS in Windows. I rather Active Directory takes care of it with Manual    entries by someone. Then have a Manager verify the entries.
sandipScottSadlochatry refreshing
ScottSadlochaAmberCan anyone tell me how to go back to addressing the group rather than an    individual?
Chipit also made zone transfer changes and we had to go back and manually    revert it. We put in a feature request to have that an optional checkbox
RichSJCJenningsGood to have a "check" system in IPAM
sandipScottSadlochathat worked
ScottSadlochaThat did it. Thanks sandip
Chipreally looking forward to seeing what is going on with FSM. Hoping to add    that to my arsenal of tools early next year if my budget plan gets approved.
Jbeucler@chip great
ScottSadlochaAwesome. I am very curious about that module as well.
StevenScottSadlochaYou can also click on the white space next to the name list
Chip@jbeucler thanks
AndoDon't forget to turn on your audio!
ecklerwr1Wish we never scrapped the shuttle program... pretty sad to see them    getting mothballed into museums.
StevenThat sky picture is fairly accurate right now as well
ecklerwr1at least we have the X37b OTV's now.
RichardLettsthe audio reminds me of Leroy Jenkins...
RenÃCopyrightA little homage there to Leroy.  :)
jakeha netflow cant monitor our baracudas so looks like we are SOL