Grodech,
Yes, NCM definitely has a deeper level of integration if you have other SolarWinds Products that utilize the Orion Core.
NCM can still be a stand alone application, not requiring the other SolarWinds applications.
Moving based on NPM costing too much should not be a factor at all.
NCM 7.0 and beyond, does require Orion Core(not NPM and is installed with NCM 7) and an Orion Core Database (Created with the NCM isntaller during the Core Configuration Wizard).
See this video created to help demonstrate:
Network Configuration Manager 7.0 Standalone Installation
So NCM 7.0 does require an NCM database and a Core Database.
But does not Require NPM.
Hope this helps.
Ok, so now there's an additional database required. In addition to that, it looks like all node management is through the Orion Core. In previous versions, if I needed to add a node to NCM, I could do it right there. Now it appears I have to get into the Orion Core web interface in order to do Node management. There are things I can't change in the Node information from NCM - has to be done from the Orion Core web interface. Most annoying.
Also, I don't know how you can say that cost isn't a factor. I have 55 nodes. The cost differential in NCM to go from 50 nodes to 100 nodes is $1100. CatTools is only $750 and will also handle up to 100 nodes. I don't know about your department, but mine is pinching every penny. Annual support costs are also a lot less for CatTools.
Grodech,
Was not indicating NCM does not have a different cost structure that CatTools. I was indicating you would not have to purchase other Solarwinds products to stay with NCM. Again, not addressing the addition of additional licenses. Additional Licenses would cost more. For more information on costs, your sales Representative would be able to address more on that topic.
Node managment as well as User management are both done thorugh the Web Console and removed from the Win 32 application.
The Choice between CatTools and NCM is not a decision I was trying to sway in the post I made.
Tks Bill.
Hi Grodech,
Just a couple of points in addition to what Bill already said; true that if you cross the boundary of the 50 nodes, there is an extra cost for NCM that you don't have with Cattools (and BTW, NCM 7 does not have anything to do with that).
The way to look at it, if I may, is look at the extra features you have with NCM and the time you save due to that and see if it's worth the money you'll save with Cattools.
Just a few examples:
- NCM has an automatic discovery that Cattools does not have. Time saver, and time is money.
- NCM 7.0 now has Network Atlas so you can create graphical maps of your network and use them for real-time status monitoring.
- NCM is IP V6 ready
- NCM 7.0 has a workflow approval system, so you can have your config changes approves by someone else (second pair of eyes). Or be the approver and delegate to someone the responsibility to submit changes that YOU will approve.
- NCM comes with plenty of network config best practices (compliance reports) that can save you some time in terms of checking your config.
All that being said, I definitely understand where you are coming from, and your questions are the right ones.
I'll ping you off line so we can continue this conversation, if interested.
Thanks for your candid feedback
Was not indicating NCM does not have a different cost structure that CatTools. I was indicating you would not have to purchase other Solarwinds products to stay with NCM.
Gotcha.
Node managment as well as User management are both done through the Web Console and removed from the Win 32 application.
This kills some of the usefulness of the Win32 application, at least for me. I have to make changes through the web console in order to see them grouped together correctly inside the Win32 application.
The Choice between CatTools and NCM is not a decision I was trying to sway in the post I made.
I think that's kind of what I'm looking for.
If you can't tell, I have NCP 7 installed already. We had an unfortunate accident with the SQL server housing the NCM 6 database, so instead of rebuilding it I just went ahead and installed v7 and rescanned the network.
The scanning feature is nice, I'll admit that. But now that the initial setup is done, scanning is not something I'll likely do again. This is also how I discovered that we had cleared the 50 device mark. I had scanned several devices that I hadn't previously added to the destroyed NCM install. It was these two events that brought me to my original quandry. Do I upgrade my license and keep features that I really don't use (or might use someday), or switch out to CatTools and have the functions I really need (config backup/change control) for less cost and probably more work in setup.
Fair question.
I would make this type of decision after looking at the new NCM 7 new features (see above and we can talk more off line about these, I sent you an email), and see if you like them and if they bring some value to you now or in a short future.
We went to 7 and are looking to back-rev to 6. Lost too much functionality with the Win32 and since we were mostly using it for config archiving of devices not normally up and on the lan, 7 broke most of our functionality and was a pain. It's also appallingly slow to do anything with the web interface - not to mention so NPM centric that most of what we want it for just doesn't work right ... lots of issues.
Hi Delta,
I'll contact you off-line to discuss these issues. Some might have existing workarounds or solutions coming in a short time frame.
In looking through the NCM release notes/admin guide, and from other posts, I see that NCM 7 integrates a lot more into the other Orion products. I'm wondering if it's even worth getting into if we're not using any other Orion products. We're using IPMonitor, as the costs for NPM were prohibitive for us. Should I maybe look at replacing our current NCM installation with CatTools instead? I'm already looking at needing more nodes for NCM than what we have.
My situation is a little different we use NPM and APM. I installed NCM 7.0 as an integrated product and would like to return to NCM 6.x. For my organization the tighter integration of the two products have caused work-flow issues in getting systems from pre-deployment through production. I liked the Win32 interface for 6.x. We were able to add a new device, confirm SNMP, confrm downloads, and inventory the new device using a single screen. This is changed considerably. Also the web interface is much slower and requires more screen changes.
If you do not have a requirement for a new 7.0 feature, my personal recommendation is stay with 6.x until SW is able to fix NCM relation to the Orion Core and improves the workflow.
Good Luck either way
I just upgraded and I'm very frustrated. For whatever reason, NCM is turning into some form of NPM. Instead of having the NCM console like you used to, you now have a hybrid of the console and a web console.
It is very clunky, doesn't provide for easy bulk changes, and requires much more time to administrate than it ever did before. I feel I just went backwards. The web interface is extremely slow, and it takes what seems forever to get anything done.
And for whatever reason, NCM now has a node poller integrated into it... so if you are already polling your nodes with NPM, guess what??, you get to do it again with NCM. More network traffic and server resources isn't what I want in a product.
Version 6.0 was a good product, it just needed a few tweaks. Instead, it got a complete overhaul.
I'd go back in a heart beat if I could figure out how.
If you do not have a requirement for a new 7.0 feature, my personal recommendation is stay with 6.x until SW is able to fix NCM relation to the Orion Core and improves the workflow.
We're taking your advice rcahill...too many issues with v7 reported by everyone. I'm scared to death to migrate. I don't need the headaches. We're staying on v6.1 and writing off v7 train unless I hear more positive feedback from the NCM community. Maybe v8 will bring major improvements?
Thanks for everyone's feedback in this thread and other NCM threads!
From Support on How to Back-Rev:
Follow these steps:
NCM 7.0 integrated with NPM on single machine scenario
In order to roll back to 6.1 the following steps needs to be performed:
Open Add or Remove Programs
--Uninstall SolarWinds Orion NCM-NPM Integration v7.0
-- Run Orion Configuration Wizard
-- Uninstall SolarWinds Orion Network Configuration Manager v7.0
-- Uninstall SolarWinds SCP Server
Restore NCM v6.1 database from backup
Install NCM v6.1
Run NCM Configuration Wizard and create new or open existing NCM v6.1 database
